[Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: "causal" in P14 scope note

Athanasios Velios thanasis at softicon.co.uk
Wed Jan 12 23:16:50 EET 2022


In which case, can I suggest the following change to the scope note:

Old scope note:
This property describes the active participation of an instance of E39 
Actor in an instance of E7 Activity. It implies causal or legal 
responsibility. The P14.1 in the role of property of the property 
specifies the nature of an Actor’s participation.

Proposed new scope note:
This property describes the active participation of an instance of E39 
Actor in an instance of E7 Activity. It implies causal or legal 
responsibility. For instances of E39 Actor whose inactive presence has a 
causal impact to the activity or they are active without sharing the 
responsibility of the activity, the property P11 had participant 
(participated in) should be used instead. The P14.1 in the role of 
property of the property specifies the nature of the participation for 
the instance of E39 Actor.

All the best,

Thanasis

On 12/01/2022 20:31, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:
> Dear Robert,
> 
> Yes, scope notes can always be improved!
> 
> The role of the child should definitely not be regarded as P14. 
> Necessary participation is definitey not meant by "causal" or "legal 
> responsibility" in this scope note. P14 is meant in an active sense. In 
> a sense, any participation may have an impact on an event. This was not 
> meant here.
> 
> Similarly, patients in a surgery are necessary, but do not carry it out.
> However, there are well-known criminal cases in which participation 
> without inhibiting murder etc. are regarded as legally co-responsible. 
> In that case, we should rather use P14, in my opinion.
> 
> Since participation is a generalization of P14, the difference for the 
> recall/ precision of querying the CRM is however marginal.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 1/12/2022 7:32 PM, Robert Sanderson via Crm-sig wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> A question came up in the Linked Art group today about the intent of 
>> "causal" in the scope not for P14 carried out by.
>>
>> The scope note reads, in its entirety:
>>
>>     This property describes the active participation of an instance of
>>     E39 Actor in an instance of E7 Activity.It implies causal or legal
>>     responsibility. The /P14.1 in the role of /property of the
>>     property specifies the nature of an Actor’s participation.
>>
>>
>> The particular scenario being discussed was the baptism of a child and 
>> whether it could be said that the baby carried out the activity or was 
>> merely a participant or present.  The child is a necessary participant 
>> in the activity, but does that make their participation "causal"? 
>> Whether the child is actively or passively participating seems 
>> difficult to determine so we didn't rule P14 out on those grounds.
>>
>> For such an important property, I think we could easily improve the 
>> scope note :)
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> -- 
>> Rob Sanderson
>> Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata
>> Yale University
>>
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> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>                
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>   
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