[Crm-sig] CRMarcheo -embedding

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Sat Mar 27 12:32:42 EET 2021


Hi Achille,

That is basically no problem. It can quite easily be formulated in FOL 
that at least one of the Units must be an A2, and it should be in the 
scope note. Anyway, lack of knowledge may require that the necessary A2 
is not documented. In that case, the FOL can make sure that one can 
infer such lack of knowledge.

More generally, as Nicola Guarino has written in his foundational paper, 
formal ontologies try to minimize unintended applications, but cannot 
completely exclude them.

All the best,

Martin

On 3/26/2021 10:23 PM, Achille Felicetti wrote:
> Dear Martin, Christian-Emil,
>
> Thank you for the interesting insights. For the scenario described by 
> Martin I fully agree with what he writes and surely it makes sense to 
> consider an embedding as distributed among different layers in the 
> very common case in which it spans over multiple and stratigraphic 
> strata of different kind (A2 + A3).
>
> However, the problem that I see is formal, since changing the range of 
> AP19 would allow the definition of triples like the following:
>
> (X is-a A7 embedding) —> AP19 is embedding in —> (Y is-a A3 
> Stratigraphic Interface)
>
> that will become formally correct from the point of view of the model, 
> but conceptually disputable in my opinion.
>
> I can't think of a solution that accommodates everything.
>
> Best,
> A.
>
>> Il giorno 26 mar 2021, alle ore 19:35, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig 
>> <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>> ha scritto:
>>
>> Dear Christian-Emil, Achille,
>>
>> When talking about embeddings, I am not so much thinking of an 
>> isolated item, but things like the Talheim Death Pit with thousands 
>> of bones, where each exact position is vital for the assignment to 
>> complete corpses.
>>
>> I am also thinking of a thing embedded by multiple layers. First the 
>> lower half, then the upper half. Should somehow be consistent with 
>> the physical relations. The first would provide the chronology when 
>> the deposition started.
>>
>> We can think of sets of Amphorae, upright metal objects or so, tall 
>> enough to be embedded by multiple layers.
>>
>> This would justify embedding in A8, and A3 interfaces taking part in 
>> the embedding, just as considering intersections of A3 Interfaces as 
>> physical relations.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 3/26/2021 4:49 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore via Crm-sig wrote:
>>>
>>> You are quite correct, it would be a 2-dimentional embedding. In the 
>>> 2D world a pencil stroke is a unpassable hindrance.
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand  AP 9 is not a total property. And also not all 
>>> persons can give birth at least not now.
>>>
>>> C-E
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Achille Felicetti <achille.felicetti at pin.unifi.it>
>>> *Sent:* 26 March 2021 11:30
>>> *To:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore
>>> *Cc:* crm-sig
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] CRMarcheo -embedding
>>>
>>> Dear Christian-Emil,
>>>
>>> I understand the practical need of this operation, but I also fear 
>>> that this may cause further conceptual inconsistencies since, I 
>>> imagine, in no way an embedding can be embedded in an A3 as the 
>>> latter is a feature.
>>>
>>> I think it would be more fruitful to apply a constrain on the use of 
>>> A2 in case an A7 is instantiated … Is this reasonable?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> A.
>>>
>>>> Il giorno 26 mar 2021, alle ore 09:27, Christian-Emil Smith Ore via 
>>>> Crm-sig <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>> ha 
>>>> scritto:
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> In issue 447 the SIG has decided to make A7 Embedding a subclass 
>>>> of  S20. Ok.
>>>> In many excavations archaeologists record structures without 
>>>> specifying layer (A2) versus surface (A3). Therefore such 
>>>> documented things can only be modelled as instances of the A8, the 
>>>> superclass of A2 and A3.
>>>> Currently
>>>>
>>>>   * AP19 is embedding in (contains embedding) [[D: A7 Embedding; R:
>>>>     A2 Stratigraphic Volume Unit]
>>>>
>>>> To be able to document an embedding in the documentation described 
>>>> above, it would be beneficial to lift the range of AP19 to A8 
>>>> Archeological Unit:
>>>> AP19 is embedding in (contains embedding) [[D: A7 Embedding; R: A8 
>>>> A8 Archeological Unit​]
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Christian-Emil
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>                
>>   Honorary Head of the
>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>   
>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>                    
>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>   
>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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>


-- 
------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr
               
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
                   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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