[Crm-sig] Issue 447, Embedding as Rigid Physical Feature

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Fri Mar 5 15:02:26 EET 2021


Dear Christian-Emil,

I think so! More precisely:

x P156 occupies y P89 falls within (contains)​ z
...as long as the thing was completely covered.

x P156 occupies y P121 overlaps with z
if parts were above surface, or less constraint for complete coverage.

We may include partial embedding or not.

Both y and z are P157 at rest relative to z

Correct?

Best,

Martin

On 3/5/2021 2:34 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> In the I October SIG Meeting, the following arguments were made:
> "Gerald Hiebel would prefer A7 Embedding as a S20. One point in the 
> argumentation may be, that the surrounding matter of an Embedding has 
> a specific condition is often used to determine parameters like the 
> time of deposition"
>
>
> MD supports this, and in my opinion this is a correct decision. I was 
> asked to have a look at this "CEO to edit A7 Embedding accordingly and 
> also check properties AP17 through AP21 (check for consistency with 
> newly postulated semantics for A7 and also determine their 
> superproperties)."
>
>
> If A7 Embedding becomes a subclass of S20 Rigid Physical Feature the 
> temporal aspect disappear and  an instance of E7 will be a physical 
> feature surrounding an instance(s) of E18 Physical Thing and a place 
> for this feature. Isn't this another way to say that for an instance 
> x of E18 Physical Thing , y of E53 Place, z of S20 S20 Rigid Physical 
> Feature
>
> x P53 has former or current location (is former or current location 
> of) y P121 overlaps with/P89 falls within (contains)​ z?
>
>
> Best,
>
> Christian-Emil​
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>       Current definition:
>
>
>       A7 Embedding
>
> [CSO1]
>
> Subclass of: E3 Condition State
>
> Superclass of:
>
> Scope Note:      This class comprises the states of instances of E18 
> Physical Things of being partially or completely embedded at a 
> particular position with relative stability in one or more A2 
> Stratigraphic Volume Units. Normally, an embedding is expected to have 
> been stable from the time of generation of the first A2 Stratigraphic 
> Volume Unit that surrounds it. However, it may also be due to later 
> intrusion. As an empirical fact, the expert may only be able to decide 
> that a particular embedding is not recent, i.e. has been persisting 
> for longer than the activity that encountered it. This class can be 
> used to document the fact of embedding generally with respect to the 
> surrounding matter or, more specifically, with respect to a more 
> precise position within this matter. It further allows for specifying 
> temporal bounds for which a particular embedding has existed, as 
> specified by the evidence.
>
> Examples:
>
>   Τhe individual fallen slabs (E19) that were discovered (S19) during 
> the excavation  process of Room 5 (A1) of the West House in Akrotiri, 
> Thera, were embedded (A7) in an almost vertical position (E55) within 
> deposit (A8) on the ground floor (E53) (Fig. 10).  [Μιχαηλίδου 2001, 
> pp. 68-70].
>
> In First Order Logic:
>
>                                                A7(x) ⊃ E3(x)
>
> Properties:**AP17 is found by (found): S19 Encounter Event

>
> AP18 is embedding of (is embedded): E18 Physical Thing
>
> AP19 is embedding in (contains embedding): A2 Stratigraphic Volume Unit
>
> AP20 is embedding at (contains): E53 Place
>
>
>         [CSO1]A7 Embedding:
>
> *DECISION*: to be dealt with in the designated issue (447 
> <http://www.cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-447-a7-embedding-as-a-physical-feature-like-entity>), 
> not part of the editorial work.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Martin 
> Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
> *Sent:* 26 February 2021 22:09
> *To:* crm-sig
> *Subject:* [Crm-sig] Issue 447, Embedding as Rigid Physical Feature
> Dear All,
>
> In the October SIG Meeting, the following arguments were made:
>
> "Gerald Hiebel would prefer A7 Embedding as a S20. One point in the 
> argumentation may be, that the surrounding matter of an Embedding has 
> a specific condition is often used to determine parameters like the 
> time of deposition"
>
> I support this.
>
> "What we loose when we define it as S20:
>
> “It further allows for specifying temporal bounds for which a 
> particular embedding has existed, as specified by the evidence.
> Maybe we could create a property e.g. was embedded for (instead of 
> AP20?) that relates to a time span to be able to state temporal bounds 
> of the embedding.
> If we define A7 as S20 we would not really need a property AP20 
> embedded at as it is already a E53 Place that we could attach spatial 
> information to."
>
> Counterargument: A Rigid Physical Feature has a genesis event, that 
> allows for specifying the time of embedding. No extra property needed.
>
> The property AP20 is necessary, because "This property identifies the 
> E53 <#_E53_Place_1> Place that is documented as the E53 
> <#_E53_Place_1> Place of the A7 <#_A7_Embedding> Embedding. This place 
> must be at rest relative to the instance of A2 
> <#_A2_Stratigraphic_Volume> Stratigraphic Volume Unit that contains 
> the A7 <#_A7_Embedding> Embedding."
>
> I believe the relation to the stratigraphic unit would be quite 
> cumbersome to make otherwise.
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>                
>   Honorary Head of the
>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>   
>   Information Systems Laboratory
>   Institute of Computer Science
>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>                    
>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>   
>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl


-- 
------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr
               
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
                   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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