[Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Pxx represents entity of type

Robert Sanderson RSanderson at getty.edu
Fri Mar 6 00:28:34 EET 2020


Hi Nicola,

I disagree with the relationship to P137.  That would mean that the visual item exemplified the type, which it doesn’t, it merely depicts an entity of the type.
For example, if it were a sub-property of P137 and I was looking for exemplars of abstract impressionism, I might find images that are photographic that merely depict an instance of something which is abstract impressionism.
I could also see it being a sibling to P138 rather than a child, and thus a sub-property of P67.

I took the “not of interest” phrase from the parallel P125:

> This property defines the kind of objects used in an E7 Activity, when the specific instance is either unknown or not of interest, such as use of "a hammer".

But I’m also happy with your reformulation.

Thanks!

Rob

From: Nicola Carboni <nic.carboni at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 at 2:48 AM
To: Robert Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu>
Cc: crm-sig <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Pxx represents entity of type


Dear Rob,

I do agree with the need and the formulation, and it can be extremely useful for iconographical attributes (which are intentionally classified using categories). I did personally used the same construct<https://ncarboni.github.io/vir/#K21_depict_things_of_type> in an extension of CRM for iconographical representation, so would love to see it in CRM base.

Sub Property Of P138 Represents

What about making it as subproperty of "P137 exemplifies (is exemplified by)". It does seems to me more appropriate.

This property establishes the relationship between an E36 Visual Item and an E55 Type that represents the class of entity which it visually represents. This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or not of documentary interest. The manner or mode of the representation can be captured using Pxx.1 mode of representation.

I would not use a negative ("not of documentary interest") and say "This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or for documenting the belonging of an item to a specific category" or another more positive formulation. In my experience, the choice of the classification of categorical vs instance depends on the discipline and not by a lack of documentary interest.

Another example could be:

  *   The attribute of the wall painting "Saint George" (E36) represents an entity of type dragon (E55) in the manner of Iconographical Attribute (E55)

Best,

Nicola

—
Nicola Carboni
Research Fellow // History of Art
University of Zurich Post Box 23
Ramistrasse 71 8006 Zurich
Switzerland

On 19 Feb 2020, at 1:54, Robert Sanderson wrote:



Dear all,



(Last new issue for now, I promise)



When describing a Visual Item, we can say that it represents some entity that you can point to (e.g. the sitter), that it is about some subject that you can’t point to (e.g love) and it can have general classifications with has type for style (abstract) or other such features of the overall visual content. However, it would be useful to be able to say that a class of entity is represented in the visual item rather than a specific entity.



We have tried several approaches to this. If we want to say that a still life painting depicts flowers, we would not want to create a Biological Object and classify it as a flower to be represented by the visual item of the painting … such a flower may never have actually existed, and it would be enormously expensive. Equally we don’t think that the Type “flowers” is represented in the painting … it’s a not a depiction of all flowers, it’s a depiction of some, likely fictional, collection of specific flowers.



So we would propose a new property that parallels P138 represents, but instead refers to a class of entity rather than a specific.



We can see this pattern already in the model:

P16 used specific object    vs   P125 used object of type

P20 had specific purpose     vs    P21 had general purpose

P33 used specific technique    vs   P32 used general technique

P108 has produced    vs    P186 produced thing of product type



Pxx represents entity of type

Domain: E36 Visual Item

Range: E55 Type

Sub Property Of P138 Represents



This property establishes the relationship between an E36 Visual Item and an E55 Type that represents the class of entity which it visually represents.  This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or not of documentary interest.  The manner or mode of the representation can be captured using Pxx.1 mode of representation.



Properties:  Pxx.1 mode of representation: E55 Type



Examples:
·         The still life painting’s image content (E36) represents and entity of type flowers (E55)
·         The sculpture’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type woman (E55)
·         The photograph’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type beach (E55) in the manner of background (E55)





Thoughts?



Many thanks!



Rob





--

Dr. Robert Sanderson,  Semantic Architect  |  Getty Digital  |  getty.edu<http://getty.edu/>

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