[Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Normal Custodian Of?

Robert Sanderson RSanderson at getty.edu
Fri Mar 6 00:10:12 EET 2020

Another use case which has come up:

A painting is given from the Paintings department, which is the normal custodian, to the Conservation department, in order to perform conservation work on it.

The Conservation department has custody of it, but the Paintings department is still the normal custodian.  The ownership of the object doesn’t change. And potentially the physical location of it doesn’t either, if the conservation work is being done in place in the gallery, such as the current work on the Nightwatch at the Rijksmuseum, or Blue Boy at the Huntingdon here in California.


From: George Bruseker <george.bruseker at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 6:14 AM
To: Robert Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu>
Cc: crm-sig <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Normal Custodian Of?

It seems to make sense to raise as an issue. The case does seem to come up reasonably frequently. The parallel seems convincing. For the moment we could cover temporal elements by initiating the existing of the property via an E13 attribute assignment (if we had such info).

On Feb 15, 2020, at 2:33 AM, Robert Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu<mailto:RSanderson at getty.edu>> wrote:

Apologies, I should have put NEW ISSUE in the subject for this originally.

As a quick proposal to discuss:

With P54 has current permanent location as a precedent, I would propose a Pxx has current permanent custodian as a new property to manage the knowledge described in the email below.

Happy to work on a scope note for it if that’s a useful thing to add to the ontology.


From: Robert Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu<mailto:RSanderson at getty.edu>>
Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 12:24 PM
To: "crm-sig at ics.forth.gr<mailto:crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>" <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr<mailto:crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>>
Subject: Normal Custodian Of?

Dear fellow SIG folks,

Happy new year 😊

A question came up here as to how to record the normal custodian of an object, as opposed to the current custodian.

For example, if we have custody of an object but it’s a permanent loan from a donor, and we lend it to another organization for an exhibition, then the owner doesn’t change (still the donor, probably wanting to remain anonymous) and there’s a transfer of custody from ourselves to the exhibiting organization.  If that’s a travelling exhibit, it might pass through several custodians before it should eventually return to us.

Is there a way to track this not-quite-an-owner but not-just-the-current-custodian state?  The only way that I can see is to model the right of permanent custody separate from the right of temporary custody… but then we re-enter the rights and temporal validity arena.  Perhaps this would be another motivating use case for moving forward with that work?

Many thanks for your thoughts,


Rob Sanderson,  Semantic Architect  |  Getty Digital  |  getty.edu<http://getty.edu/>
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