[Crm-sig] and now something completely different - a modelling question

Christian-Emil Smith Ore c.e.s.ore at iln.uio.no
Mon Jan 20 15:21:20 EET 2020

Dear George,

I am interested in joining.

My original issue was not about "President of the Swiss Confederation​". I just picked it form the list of examples in the definition of  E74 Group (which apparently need some adjustment).

My first problem was to find a way to link an actor taking care of an archaeological site, which may be modelled by P50 has current keeper (is current keeper of) by stretching the definition.  Then it stroke me that even though the President of USA could be modelled as a group, it was no way to link this group (actor) to the USA.



From: George Bruseker <george.bruseker at gmail.com>
Sent: 20 January 2020 14:04
To: Franco Niccolucci
Cc: Christian-Emil Smith Ore; crm-sig
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] and now something completely different - a modelling question

Dear Christian Emil,

I agree with what Franco says but still we have no property that allows you to connect the two different meanings here entailed.

I think this came up also with rights and the question of modelling jurisdiction. We don't have a property to connect periods to groups but what you present is the use case. I believe I have a homework to make the subclass of period which is a jurisdiction and which would have as its property 'under jurisdiction of' or equivalent which would connect the group to the special form of period.

Interested in joining that homework?


On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 2:59 PM Franco Niccolucci <franco.niccolucci at gmail.com<mailto:franco.niccolucci at gmail.com>> wrote:
The issue comes from the fact that the said President is not the president of the mountains, lakes, plains etc that form Switzerland; there are two “Swiss Confederation”s here: more precisely, there is Switzerland (the territory) and the Swiss Confederation (the political institution ruling Switzerland). In other words, Ms. Sommaruga is the current President of the Helvetic Confederation, not of the corresponding land, ruled by the Confederation, which is a Space-time volume.

BTW, it is moreover incorrect the statement that the “President of the Swiss Confederation” is a Group; it should be stated that the “Head of State of the Swiss Confederation” is a Group, as according to the Swiss Constitution this function is jointly assigned to the Federal Council, a Group. The President is an individual (a Person) who chairs the Council for one year as a primus inter pares.

In sum, there are two different concepts associated with a country:

a) the territory, possibly variable in time, which is rightfully modelled as a Space-time volume

b) the state, which depends on the political and legislative structure and possibly on the international recognition; you choose how to model it, perhaps as a Group? It has a beginning and an end. E.g. France roughly corresponds in time to the same territory but the state of France has been different: monarchy, then republic, then empire, then monarchy and finally republic again; such changes had no direct relationship with the changes of the corresponding territory. Conversely, there may be changes in the territory with no change in the state, for example the Kingdom of Italy before and after each World War, same state, king and Constitution but different territory. In 1946 Italy became a Republic, political change but same territory.

Such difference is also evidenced by different names: Switzerland versus Confoederatio Helvetica, Italy versus Italian Republic etc.

There is an obvious relationship between b) and a). But they are not the same: if a) changes b) may remain the same and viceversa.

A President/King/citizen is president/etc. of b), not of a).

Examples where currently only one of a)/b) exists:
. the Sovereign Military Order of Malte (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta) is recognized by 107 states so it exists as a state but has no territory on which it exerts its power. To the best of my knowledge this is a unique case.
- the Republic of North Cyprus has a territory on which it exerts its control but is not internationally recognized (except by Turkey) so does not exist as a state.


Prof. Franco Niccolucci
Director, VAST-LAB
PIN - U. of Florence
Scientific Coordinator

ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH)

Piazza Ciardi 25
59100 Prato, Italy

> Il giorno 20 gen 2020, alle ore 12:23, Christian-Emil Smith Ore <c.e.s.ore at iln.uio.no<mailto:c.e.s.ore at iln.uio.no>> ha scritto:
> Dear all
> As an example of an instance of  E24 Group one find "The President of the Swiss Confederation" which is ok. How should one link this instance to the Swiss Confederation​ which is modelled as a instance of E4 Period?
> Best
> Christian-Emil
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr<mailto:Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr<mailto:Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20200120/eb049525/attachment.html>

More information about the Crm-sig mailing list