[Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE
martin at ics.forth.gr
Sun Jan 12 21:15:57 EET 2020
I am sorry, of course this needs explanations.
The Allen relations have turned out to be problematic in practice,
a) because OR combination are needed to relax the relations to those as
we typically find from historical or archaeological evidence and
conditions of incomplete knowledge,
b) therefore we could not declare temporal constraints implied by
semantic relations as superproperties.
c) they are based on exact temporal boundaries, that exist only in
contracts or administration acts.
Therefore we have already replaced them with a new set of primitives:
P173 - P176, P182 - P185.
They are compatible with evidence-based temporal constraints, and use a
sound logic to cover fuzzy boundaries.
They are extensively discussed and explained in section : "Temporal
Relation Primitives based on fuzzy boundaries"
in the last draft version 6.2.7 of the CRM.
At most two of these in AND combination (two superproperties) create any
Therefore it makes no sense to have two sets of competing primitives in
the CRMBase, and we have already a lot of topological relations in CRMBase.
The deprecation statements ("use...") should contain the replacement
Typical applications of Allen relations are the "epistemic" partitioning
of periods in classical archaeology in 3 phases. Therefore we had
decided (missing in the minutes) that these should appear in CRMarcheo
as subproperties of the new primitives.
Please vote only, if you have read the text "Temporal Relation
Primitives based on fuzzy boundaries" and the definitions of the new
On 1/12/2020 12:54 PM, Francesco Beretta wrote:
> Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,
> 1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties
> in CRMbase ?
> 2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal
> should be associated with the list and links to the correspondent
> issues, shouldn't it ?
> 3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and
> extensions (the family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear
> formalization of this integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this
> already done and I just don't know where to find it ?
> 4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and
> dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.
> I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we
> vote. Just avoir B..x.. situations.
> All the best
> Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :
>> Dear All,
>> If you agree that
>> "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the
>> CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
>> P114 is equal in time to
>> P115 finishes (is finished by)
>> P116 starts (is started by)
>> P117 occurs during (includes)
>> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
>> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
>> P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
>> PLEASE VOTE "YES"
>> otherwise "NO"
>> On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of
>>> the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a
>>> general understanding that the SIG had decided that the following
>>> temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear
>>> in CRMarcheo:
>>> P114 is equal in time to
>>> P115 finishes (is finished by)
>>> P116 starts (is started by)
>>> P117 occurs during (includes)
>>> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
>>> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
>>> P120 occurs before (occurs after)
>>> However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the
>>> amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the
>>> list of issues.
>>> I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
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