[Crm-sig] Modelling the number of sheets used to print a book

Florian Kräutli fkraeutli at mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de
Fri Apr 17 16:35:54 EEST 2020

Dear Martin,

many thanks for your input! That's exactly the point. The sheets refer to the production process but modelling it all would be quite clumsy (and a bit presumptuous as we can't know the process precisely).

We don't have the actual physical books. We derive the sheets from the digital copies and information in library catalogues. We therefore infer something about the "intended physical features" of the book and therefore the printing process.

I think a Dimension associated with the F3 would indeed be appropriate.

All best,


> On 17. Apr 2020, at 15:19, Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr> wrote:
> I agree. The thing should be an LRMoo F5 Item :
> Scope note:         This class comprises physical objects (printed books, scores, CDs, DVDs, CD-ROMS, etc.) that were produced by (P186i) an industrial process involving a given instance of F3 Manifestation. .......
> Question: Are the sheets those actually bound, or are the bound pages part of larger sheets? I assume the latter.
> If we would do very analytical modelling of the processes, those sheets would be the semi-finished product. Then, the final production process would use the intermediate product. Sound unnecessarily clumsy.
> If we in general infer the actual number of sheets from evidence in the actual book, I think the Dimension is a good solution.
> In LRMoo, the F3 Manifestation (former Manifestation Product Type) has been generalized to the immaterial content including the intended physical features.  Then, the Dimension could go directly to F3, or a new property "number of print sheets" would be needed.
> Cheers,
> martin
> On 4/17/2020 2:16 PM, Franco Niccolucci wrote:
>> First thing coming to my mind, assuming for instance it is “Yourbook” of 150 sheets: introduce an E54 Dimension "number of sheets” and measure it
>> E70 Thing <“Yourbook”> (or whatever way you encode the physical book)
>> P43 has dimension
>> E54 Dimension <"Number of sheets">
>> P90 has value
>> 	E60 Number <150>
>> P91 has unit
>> 	E58 Measurement Unit <"Sheet number">
>> A bit verbose but you can extract & process directly the number of sheets, select small books etc., calculate the printing cost etc
>> Note that P43 has domain E70 Thing so you can attach it to any subclass of Thing / physical object you wish to use for the book. E-books may require further work/different approach.
>> Obviously this refers to a specific paper edition, exactly “that" tangible object, as a paperback may have a number of pages different from a hard-cover of the same literary object.
>> Franco
>> Prof. Franco Niccolucci
>> Director, VAST-LAB
>> PIN - U. of Florence
>> Scientific Coordinator
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH)
>> Piazza Ciardi 25
>> 59100 Prato, Italy
>>> Il giorno 17 apr 2020, alle ore 12:07, Florian Kräutli <fkraeutli at mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de> ha scritto:
>>> Dear all,
>>> I have a data modelling issue that I would like to discuss with you.
>>> We have a database of books. Currently we are in the process of identifying, for each book, the number of sheets used to print it. The number of sheets is a good indication for the investment required to print a book. We want to store this information in the database.
>>> We do already capture the number of pages in the digitised copy as well as the physical format of the book (using P43 has dimension on an F5 Item). We capture data related to the printing of the book via a F3 Manifestation Product Type and a F32 Carrier Production Event.
>>> My intuition is that the number of sheets could be modelled as an E29 Design or Procedure that P129 is about the F3 Manifestation Product Type.
>>> But how to add the information "number of sheets" to the E29 Design?
>>> Two thoughts:
>>> - Simply as P3 has note: "20 sheets" (I would like it to be more machine readable)
>>> - as a P68 foresees use of E57 Material that P2 has type "sheet" (but where to add the quantity of sheets?)
>>> What do you think?
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Florian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> -- 
> ------------------------------------
> Dr. Martin Doerr
>               Honorary Head of the
> Center for Cultural Informatics
>  Information Systems Laboratory
> Institute of Computer Science
> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>                   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>  Vox:+30(2810)391625
> Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

More information about the Crm-sig mailing list