[Crm-sig] NEW ISSUE: Scope Note of E60 needs revision

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Mon Oct 14 15:08:11 EEST 2019


Hi Richard,

I have just tried to write the scope note without the deprecated 
classes. I do not think the second paragraph pertains to implementation, 
but clarifies what is not a number ontologically. It makes a statement 
that some implementation may make a different impression about the 
ontological nature. It is good practice to refer in a scope note to 
things that are not meant by the class. Your comment about dates being 
values just confirms me that this is an important clarification.

Even though it appears to some to be more elegant to have minimal scope 
notes, many users do not appreciate that.

So, I suggest it stays...:-)

Best,

Martin

On 10/14/2019 1:11 PM, Richard Light wrote:
>
> Mart
>
> in,
>
> Returning to your original point, I think the first paragraph of the 
> scope note for E60 is sufficient.  I don't think that the second 
> paragraph adds explanatory value, and I suggest that it is removed.  
> This text is not concerned with implementation details, so we don't 
> need to discuss encoding of numbers here.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Richard
>
> On 11/10/2019 20:34, Martin Doerr wrote:
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> Sorry, should have been "NEW ISSUE".:-[
>>
>> On 10/10/2019 10:32 PM, Richard Light wrote:
>>>
>>> Martin,
>>>
>>> Is this an official CRM Issue? I don't see an issue number, and a 
>>> search of the issues page for 'E60' yields only Issue 197, which was 
>>> resolved two years ago. Nor can I find any mention of this issue in 
>>> the recently-published minutes from the last SIG meeting.
>>>
>>> I ask because I'm struggling to understand the context in which the 
>>> question has been raised, and your most recent answer.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> On 09/10/2019 19:28, Martin Doerr wrote:
>>>> Richard,
>>>>
>>>> On 10/9/2019 6:34 PM, Richard Light wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure I particularly like the phrase 'identifiers in 
>>>>> continua' - but maybe I just don't understand its intended 
>>>>> meaning.  To me, a date is just a data value, expressed to a 
>>>>> certain degree of precision. An 'identifier' suggests something 
>>>>> which is deliberately assigned as a property of an entity, in 
>>>>> order to ... identify it.
>>>>>
>>>> A date is a numerical distance from a starting point, e.g. a zero 
>>>> redefined every time the precision increases. A geocoordinate 
>>>> refers to Greenwich, etc. Therefore they are NOT values, but 
>>>> absolute points in space time. Not quantities.
>>>>
>>>>> In any case, if we are defining and giving examples of these 
>>>>> identifiers, shouldn't we be
>>>>>
>>>> Yes E41 need rewriting. I work on it. All examples from deprecated 
>>>> classes need to be transferred.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>> Whatever these identifiers are, they won't be E50 or E47, both of 
>>>>> which are flagged as deprecated (and now to be treated as E41 
>>>>> Appellation).
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/10/2019 17:59, Martin Doerr wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All, we need to provide other definitions of identifiers in 
>>>>>> continua.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       E60 Number
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subclass of:E59 <#_E59_Primitive_Value> Primitive Value
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scope Note:This class comprises any encoding of computable 
>>>>>> (algebraic) values such as integers, real numbers, complex 
>>>>>> numbers, vectors, tensors etc., including intervals of these 
>>>>>> values to express limited precision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Numbers are fundamentally distinct from identifiers in continua, 
>>>>>> such as instances of E50 Date and E47 Spatial Coordinate, even 
>>>>>> though their encoding may be similar. Instances of E60 Number can 
>>>>>> be combined with each other in algebraic operations to yield 
>>>>>> other instances of E60 Number, e.g., 1+1=2. Identifiers in 
>>>>>> continua may be combined with numbers expressing distances to 
>>>>>> yield new identifiers, e.g., 1924-01-31 + 2 days = 1924-02-02. 
>>>>>> Cf. E54 Dimension
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Examples:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> §5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> §3+2i
>>>>>>
>>>>>> §1.5e-04
>>>>>>
>>>>>> §(0.5, - 0.7,88)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In First Order Logic:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E60(x) ⊃E59(x)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>>>>>                
>>>>>>   Honorary Head of the
>>>>>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>>>>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>>>>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>>>>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>>>>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>>>>>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> *Richard Light*
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>>>                
>>>>   Honorary Head of the
>>>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>>>   
>>>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>>>                    
>>>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>>>   
>>>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>>>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>> -- 
>>> *Richard Light*
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>                
>>   Honorary Head of the
>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>   
>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>                    
>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>   
>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> -- 
> *Richard Light*
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig


-- 
------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr
               
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
                   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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