[Crm-sig] Issue 406: Question about quantification + transitivity + open world

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Sun Oct 13 21:44:38 EEST 2019


Dear All,

I believe we need a many to many relation in any case, because the 
decision of a part can be further decomposed or not is often arbitrary,  
things like buildings use to share parts, and parts may be exchanged, so 
that we are fooled by the "former or current" problem we cannot avoid. 
That part-of is a-cyclic should hold, I hope...

Best,

Martin

On 10/13/2019 9:20 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>
> ​This is indeed an important discussion.
>
>
> My point is the formalist view.  If we have a set with a linear, 
> transitive ordering like < for the integers, then this will be many to 
> many under  the transitive closure. Assume a partial ordering without 
> cycles: When we add transitivity the tree structure will still be 
> there. If we store all pair resulting from the  transitive closure the 
> tree structure is not explicit and has to be deduced form the set of 
> pair. Take the whole part relationship: To make the tree structure 
> explicit, we need a 1 to many cardinality. The fact a R b & b R c -> a 
> R C has to be deduced.  If we instead are interested in the transitive 
> closure to speed up deduction in an implementation the cardinality 
> will be many to many.
>
>
> Chr-E
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Maximilian 
> Schich <maximilian at schich.info>
> *Sent:* 13 October 2019 17:33
> *To:* crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 406: Question about quantification + 
> transitivity + open world
>
> One take-home from large-scale data-integration & data science is that 
> even the strongest assumed 1-to-many relationship in reality is 
> quasi-1-to-many due to differences in opinion (your tree vs. my tree), 
> differences in construction of strong-tree classification systems 
> (e.g. material/construction-method vs. construction-method/material in 
> architecture), and differences in data preservation (cf. the 
> integration of several strong-tree phylogenies based on different 
> knowledge of the fossil record). As a consequence it would make good 
> sense to model part-of relationships by default to allow for 
> many-to-many at least as an exception, even if the ideal is 1-to-many 
> for one reason or another.
>
>
> Regarding this issue of "part-of as many-to-many", there is a crucial 
> difference between more controlled data collections for "data 
> reasoning" and a more realistic "data archaeology" that acknowledges 
> the existing multiplicity of opinion. In the case of "data reasoning" 
> many-to-many may be a computational hurdle. Yet in the case of "data 
> archaeology" forced 1-to-many relationships are evil, as they induce 
> an artificial discreteness in the data, very similar to the artificial 
> yet often conceptually enforced discreteness of races, gender, etc. In 
> this sense an artificial restriction of part-of semantics to 1-to-many 
> relationships may be a potential source of severe systematic bias that 
> needs to be avoided under all cost.
>
>
> Consequently, there should be an emphasis on "general parts can be 
> shared by more than one whole", particularly when facing heterogeneous 
> sources of data. At the same time the audience should be provided with 
> an explicit explanation why "non-cyclic, wherever it applies" could be 
> a desire, while always accompanied by a caveat that "wherever it 
> applies" may be true in considerable less cases than intuition would 
> suggest.
>
>
> Best, Max
>
> *Dr. Maximilian Schich*
> Associate Professor, The University of Texas at Dallas, ATEC 
> <http://www.utdallas.edu/atec/> & EODIAH 
> <https://www.utdallas.edu/arthistory/>
> 800 W Campbell Rd AT10, Richardson TX 75080
> Appointments via email 
> <mailto:maximilian.schich at utdallas.edu?subject=[Appointment]>
> www.schich.info <http://www.schich.info/>
>
>
> On 2019-10-13 04:26, Martin Doerr wrote:
>> Dear Christian-Emil,
>>
>> This is good. There is also another concern that in general parts can 
>> be shared by more than one whole. I would, nevertheless, add the 
>> constraint that part-of semantics mean also non-cyclic, wherever it 
>> applies. Could you check that?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 10/13/2019 8:42 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>>>
>>> ​Dear all,
>>>
>>> I work my way through all the open issues. This issue origins from 
>>> an observation by Robert Sanderson that P9 cannot hav ethe 
>>> cardinality 1 to many and at the same time be transitive. This is 
>>> correct and will apply to all transitive properties. A transitive 
>>> property will always be many to many.
>>>
>>>
>>> Have to be adjusted:
>>>
>>> P5, P9, P10,   P73
>>>
>>>
>>> Already many to many
>>>
>>> P69 ok,​P86 ok, P89 ok, P114 ok, P115 ok, P116 ok, P117 ok, P120 ok, 
>>> P127 ok, P139 ok, P148 ok, P150 ok, P165 ok
>>>
>>>
>>> This is just editorial changes and need no discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Christian-Emil
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>                
>>   Honorary Head of the
>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>   
>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>                    
>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>   
>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr   
>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>>
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>
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-- 
------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr
               
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
                   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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