[Crm-sig] Space time volumes

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Fri Mar 22 21:37:45 EET 2019

Hi Dan,

On 3/20/2019 3:59 PM, Dan Matei wrote:
> Thanks Christian-Emil and Martin.
> I will use then E4 and P7 (regretfully :-)
> My impression is that the combination E92, P160 & P161 is a more elegant solution. But, rules are

Well, it is not really about rules, but what you talk about. You need to 
understand the implications: If you define the Byzantine Period to be 
just geometric extent, you miss what defines it. If different extents 
are debated, each one would be a different period.

we would like to be able to say: "I talk about the same period, but I 
have a different chronology for it, because I found new evidence...". So 
far, we believe we have solved that....

On the other side, any area within would be part of it, the life of 
frogs in a ponds etc., because you could not distinguish that such 
extents take their identity from a different phenomenon.

I do not share your opinion that under-specification of identity 
conditions is elegant. I think it just creates the mess we are used in 
conceptual modelling.;-)



> rules...
> Best,
> Dan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:13:52 +0200
>> As Christian-Emil also pointed out, this is a wrong use of E92.
>> The scope note says: "This class comprises 4 dimensional point sets
>> (volumes) in physical spacetime....".
>> Do you regard that what makes up the identity and substance of the
>> Byzantine Period is to be a set of points?
>> best,
>> Martin
>> On 3/19/2019 10:27 AM, Dan Matei wrote:
>>> Hi fiends,
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 19:20, Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr> wrote:
>>>> Nevertheless, we used the term informally in the CRM. We could name E92 as "abstract".
>>> For me, some E92 are not abstract. E.g. I instantiate "Byzantine
>>> Period" (it is somwhat difficult to place it in South America :-) :
>>> <#ByzantinePeriod> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
>>> <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <330-1700>
>>> <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#EsternEurope>
>>> <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#Levant>
>>> <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#NorthAfrica>
>>> Also:
>>> <#BronzeAge1> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
>>> <#BronzeAge1> <crm:P2 has_type> <#BronzeAge-Concept>
>>> <#BronzeAge1> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <p?1>
>>> <#BronzeAge1><crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#JapaneseIslands>
>>> <#BronzeAge2> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
>>> <#BronzeAge2> <crm:P2 has_type> <#BronzeAge-Concept>
>>> <#BronzeAge2> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <p?2>
>>> <#BronzeAge2><crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#Scandinavia>
>>> Should I worry ?
>>> Dan
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  Dr. Martin Doerr
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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