[Crm-sig] Space time volumes

Franco Niccolucci franco.niccolucci at gmail.com
Thu Mar 21 01:05:35 EET 2019


(Dan, resist, the cavalry is arriving, do you hear the trumpets? )

Sorry, that’s not convincing.

E4 Period is a subclass of E92 Spacetime Volume, so every E4 is also an
E92. There may theoretically be some E92 that are not E4, i.e. abstract
subsets of R4 (sorry my email app does not allow superscrpits, R4 means the
4-dimensional space of real numbers x, y, z, t)

So Dan’s “Byzantine period” is rightfully also a Spacetime Volume, besides
obviously being an E4 Period; same as it is an E1, the mother of all
concepts. If it does not fit with the E92 scope note, it is the latter that
is misspelled and wrong, not Dan. Scope notes cannot override isA.

Also, since the domain of P160 & 161 is E92, they can be applied also to
E4. Perhaps this makes P7 superfluous, but that’s another story.

In sum there is nothing “wrong” in Dan’s usage of E92 and the related
properties.

I would also add that I find difficult to describe an E92 that is not an
E4, besides artificial examples.

(Dan, nasty Indians are running away in debacle, you are safe...)

Finally, let me express some nightly gut feeling.
I am not comfortable with the scope note of E2: “This class comprises all
phenomena, such as the instances of E4 Periods, E5 Events and states, which
happen over a limited extent in time”. If these phenomena are happening,
they happen somewhere, do you know anything happening nowhere? so I would
feel better by adding at the end of this sentence “in time AND SPACE”.
Actually, all the examples of E2 mentioned in its scope note happen
somewhere: the Bronze Age happened in a region (Europe, the Levant, etc.
not in America); the Lisbon earthquake happend in Lisbon; the Peterhof
Palace in ruins happened in Northern Russia.  My gut feeling is that the
scope notes of E2 and perhaps E4 were written before achieving the concept
of E92, so they might be inconsistent or superfluous nowadays. My moonlight
feeeling is that all temporal things are subclasses of E92; but this could
be the effect of sad Brussels loneliness, where I am now, so don’t take it
too seriously.

Best

Franco




Il giorno mer 20 mar 2019 alle 15:04 Dan Matei <Dan at cimec.ro> ha scritto:

> Thanks Christian-Emil and Martin.
>
> I will use then E4 and P7 (regretfully :-)
>
> My impression is that the combination E92, P160 & P161 is a more elegant
> solution. But, rules are
> rules...
>
> Best,
>
> EDan
>
> E2 and -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:13:52 +0200
>
> > As Christian-Emil also pointed out, this is a wrong use of E92.
> >
> > The scope note says: "This class comprises 4 dimensional point sets
> > (volumes) in physical spacetime....".
> >
> > Do you regard that what makes up the identity and substance of the
> > Byzantine Period is to be a set of points?
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 3/19/2019 10:27 AM, Dan Matei wrote:
> > > Hi fiends,
> > >
> > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 19:20, Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Nevertheless, we used the term informally in the CRM. We could name
> E92 as "abstract".
> > > For me, some E92 are not abstract. E.g. I instantiate "Byzantine
> > > Period" (it is somwhat difficult to place it in South America :-) :
> > >
> > > <#ByzantinePeriod> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
> > > <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <330-1700>
> > > <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#EsternEurope>
> > > <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#Levant>
> > > <#ByzantinePeriod> <crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#NorthAfrica>
> > >
> > > Also:
> > >
> > > <#BronzeAge1> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
> > > <#BronzeAge1> <crm:P2 has_type> <#BronzeAge-Concept>
> > > <#BronzeAge1> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <p?1>
> > > <#BronzeAge1><crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#JapaneseIslands>
> > >
> > > <#BronzeAge2> <isA> <crm:E92_Spacetime_Volume>
> > > <#BronzeAge2> <crm:P2 has_type> <#BronzeAge-Concept>
> > > <#BronzeAge2> <crm:P160_has_temporal_projection> <p?2>
> > > <#BronzeAge2><crm:P161_has_spatial_projection> <#Scandinavia>
> > >
> > > Should I worry ?
> > >
> > > Dan
>
>
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