[Crm-sig] Space time volumes

Robert Sanderson RSanderson at getty.edu
Mon Mar 18 18:19:32 EET 2019

Thank you Martin!

If I can try to summarize my understanding, …

A physical object isA space time volume that has a temporal projection that is equal to the time span between its beginning of existence and its end of existence.
A period isA space time volume that has a temporal projection that is equal to the timespan of the temporal entity (and hence the FOL equivalency)
An arbitrary temporal slice of a STV (be it physical or temporal) that does not need to obey these restrictions is a E93 Presence

Space Time Volumes themselves seem never to need to be instantiated, instead one would use a subclass, as above.

In the 6.2.4 documentation, the Examples for E92 do not give sub-classes.

The STV of the Event of Caesar’s murder seems like either an E7 Activity (the murdering)
The STV of the carbon 14 dating also seems like an E7 Activity (or attribute assignment, depending on modeling?)
The HMS victory from construction through to current location seems like a E22 Man-Made Object
The Danube river flood seems like an E5 Event

Having examples for E93 Presence would be valuable.


From: Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
Date: Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:40 PM
To: Robert Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu>, "crm-sig at ics.forth.gr" <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Issue 326 Resolving inconsistencies between E2, E4, E52 and E92

Dear Robert,

On 3/14/2019 7:23 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
Good point!  I agree that the necessary condition of P98 means that the Person-STV is impossible, as that temporal projection was not, itself, born.  Thus all STVs that are also Persons, must at least include the temporal projection of the birth of the Person.
Yes, or, the birth projection overlaps with the person's STV, it initiates it. The birth begins before, and ends after. The STV's beginning falls within the birth.

So … it doesn’t work for Person p10i Person, but it could be reduced to a higher level class that doesn’t have such an identity condition. For example, for some time I had a phase in which I was 183 centimeters tall:

Person p10i [
    a E18_Physical_Object ;
    P43_has_dimension [
         a E54_Dimension
         P90_has_value 183 ;
         P91_has_unit <centimeters> ]
   P160_has_temporal_projection [
         a E52_Time-Span ;

Well, we have a beginning of existence for all E18 instances corresponding to birth. Obviously, these are natural conditions to be added, and important reasoning components to be developed for the CRM. Nothing to do with the IsA versus link problem, isn't it?

Regardless if we define a STV for it, we should know what makes things to begin to exist and end to exist.

So, I believe, for the respective phase, we still need to know how it comes into being. If it is arbitrary, then we have the "Presence" class already, which defines an arbitrary temporal section through the STV. If not, we need some other class.






 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the

 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory

 Institute of Computer Science

 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece


 Email: martin at ics.forth.gr<mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>

 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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