[Crm-sig] Help wanted - Understanding P120 versus P183

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Thu Jul 18 00:18:37 EEST 2019


Absolutely correct!:-)

On 7/17/2019 11:05 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>
> And to depict it diagrammatically, I think it’s this…
>
> *From: *Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Robert 
> Sanderson <RSanderson at getty.edu>
> *Date: *Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 12:23 PM
> *To: *Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>, crm-sig <Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
> *Subject: *Re: [Crm-sig] Help wanted - Understanding P120 versus P183
>
> Many thanks for the explanation!  To make sure that I’ve understood …
>
> P120 is only able to be used when the E52 Time-Span of the range and 
> domain E2 Temporal Entities, has the same begin_of_the_begin as its 
> end_of_the_begin, and begin_of_the_end and end_of_the_end.  Or in pure 
> CRM terms, that the value of the E61 Time Primitive of the Time-Span’s 
> P81 and P82 Time Primitives are identical.  Otherwise, the property 
> P183 must be used instead.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> Rob
>
> *From: *Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Martin 
> Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
> *Date: *Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 12:04 PM
> *To: *crm-sig <Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
> *Subject: *Re: [Crm-sig] Help wanted - Understanding P120 versus P183
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> P120 belongs to Allen's logic, which is deprecated. Allen's logic 
> assumes exact endpoints in time, whereas P183 makes the fuzzy zone 
> explicit. As such, P120 only coincides with P183 if the fuzziness is 
> zero. Therefore, P183 is more general than P120.
>
> Following CRMgeo, only declarative time spans can have precise 
> endpoints in time. In reality, they occur in plans, administrational 
> decisions, artificial constraints of focus and queries.
>
> Since Allen's terms are useful for archaeology, but not with exact 
> endpoints in time, the respective terms should be reintroduced in 
> CRMarcheo extended by fuzzy boundaries.
>
> Indeed, transitivity was not mentioned explicitly and should be added 
> in the scope note (issue!)
>
> All the best,
>
> Martin
>
> On 7/15/2019 7:55 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     The diagrams in the newer temporal properties as to how temporal
>     spans A and B relate are enormously useful in understanding the
>     distinctions between them.
>
>     The question that we ran into was the distinction between P120
>     occurs before and P182 / P183, and which one to use. In
>     particular, we could not distinguish between P120 and its super
>     property, P183.
>
>     Both imply some minimal temporal gap between the end of the first
>     and the beginning of the second. Both position the entities
>     temporally in the same order. Perhaps more importantly, between
>     P182 (End of A is less than or equal to the start of B) and P183
>     (End of A is less than start of B), it seems like there are no
>     other possibilities?
>
>     Indeed, P183 corresponds to Allen’s {before}, as does P120. P183
>     does not directly assert that it is transitive, but the temporal
>     logic makes it such.
>
>     If there is a difference, between the two, it would be lovely to
>     understand. And a diagram would be very helpful in explaining that
>     difference.  If there isn’t a difference, it seems that P183 could
>     be deprecated in favor of the longer standing P120.
>
>     Many thanks!
>
>     Rob
>
>
>
>
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> -- 
> ------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>                
>   Honorary Head of the
>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>   
>   Information Systems Laboratory
>   Institute of Computer Science
>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>                    
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>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
> -- 
> ------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>                
>   Honorary Head of the
>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>   
>   Information Systems Laboratory
>   Institute of Computer Science
>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>                    
>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>   
>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr  <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>   
>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>
> 	
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-- 
------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr
               
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
                   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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