[Crm-sig] Object containership shortcuts?

Robert Sanderson RSanderson at getty.edu
Tue Jul 9 19:49:47 EEST 2019

Thank you Martin.

Having the same instance be both the physical thing and the place that the physical thing is the reference for is interesting. It certainly cuts out the mostly unnecessary entities.

Given that Place and Human-Made Object only intersect at E1, there doesn’t seem to be any significant confusion by having a new class that’s a sub class of both E22 and E53. It could be called a Container.

There’s some weirdness about partitioning of the physical, and how that relates to the positional, but so far nothing that produces inconsistency that wouldn’t also be inconsistent with the fully expressed path. For example, a desk with drawers is a Container, that has parts which are Containers. The place-ness of the desk and drawers are not necessarily also partitioned in the same way, which is fine – we might consider only the top of the desk as the place that it defines, which would be distinct from the drawers.  Equally, if we took the drawer out of the desk and put it on top, we would not have part of the place being contained within itself.

It means that the place is destroyed along with the object … but that’s not bad either. Without the reference system of the object, the place no longer has any meaning.  It does get a little strange with former_or_current_location – the former location is a thing that has been destroyed – but that’s indeed what has happened.

Could we have another RDFS join class - E22_E53_Container ?


From: Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM
To: "crm-sig at ics.forth.gr" <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Object containership shortcuts?

On 6/24/2019 10:59 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:

Dear all,

Has anyone used P54 has current permanent location in practice in an information system, where the containing Place is defined only with respect to some other physical object?

Some use cases for this pattern:

·         A set of letters in a folder, or a set of paintbrushes in a box

·         A set of coins in a display case

·         Books on a bookshelf

This seems like a very easy use case for a shortcut between Physical Objects to avoid creating Places that exist only to be the P54 of some other object.  The containing object is typically 1:1 with its container-space, as even if there are drawers in a desk, you could model the drawer as a part of the desk, which had its own space. Thus the cutlery in one drawer, the cooking utensils in a different drawer, despite being part of the same kitchen cupboard unit.

The most simple solution is Physical Object IsA Place, with the respective semantics, of being itself the reference system.

The temporal aspects of P53, P55 are given by the Presence class, which requires E18 IsA STV, otherwise the paths get very long...

We will try in our team a logical definition of these things.




Similarly, P53 and P55 could also benefit from such a shortcut for their different temporal aspects.




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 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the

 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory

 Institute of Computer Science

 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

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 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece


 Email: martin at ics.forth.gr<mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>

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