[Crm-sig] New Issue: Re-label E22, E25, E71 to remove "Man-"

Dominic Oldman DOldman at britishmuseum.org
Fri Apr 12 14:23:38 EEST 2019

I strongly agree with Florian.

It is simply right to make these changes.


From: Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Florian Kräutli <fkraeutli at mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de>
Sent: 12 April 2019 11:35
To: Pierre Choffé; Athanasios Velios; crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] New Issue: Re-label E22, E25, E71 to remove "Man-"

Dear Pierre and all,

I strongly disagree. This is not about the origins of the word but of its usage and meaning in present day. The CRM should reflect (changing) knowledge contexts and we as a community should react to and respect developments in the world, and not decide based on our personal opinions about them.

I think this should be put up as an issue and I would vote in favour of either suggestion: dropping ‘man’ or replacing it with ‘human’.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 12:13 PM +0200, "Pierre Choffé" <choffepierre at gmail.com<mailto:choffepierre at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear all,

This subject is typical of the politically correct attitude of our times and most people (including me) generally avoid getting involved in such discussions - especially on social media where you would immediately get drowned in a flood of insults - and the result is that we have a feeling of consensus on the matter.

Now, we as a community might have a different point of view, starting with the knowledge we have of the origin of the word "man" (please consult the wikipedia page<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_(word)> for a brief introduction). Can we please avoid this kind of discussions and leave it to Twitter and Facebook ?

Et pax in Terra hominibus bonae volontatis... (any woman feeling excluded here ?)

Have a nice day,

On Fri, Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:2 AM, Athanasios Velios <a.velios at arts.ac.uk> wrote:

I support the change of the English labels to:

E22 Made Object
E25 Made Feature
E71 Made Thing

And I think this can be proposed as an issue to be voted through the SIG

All the best,


On 12/04/2019 05:38, Robert Sanderson wrote:
> Dear all,
> On behalf of the Linked Art consortium, I would like to propose that the
> labels for E22 Man-Made Object, E25 Man-Made Feature and E71 Man-Made
> Thing be changed to drop the unnecessarily gendered “Man-“. In this day
> and age, I think we should recognize that inclusion and diversity are
> core features of community acceptance, and that including gender-biased
> language is alienating.
> Thus the proposal is: E22’s label should be changed to Made Object, E25
> changed to Made Feature and E71 changed to Made Thing.
> The “human” nature of the agent that does the making is explicit in the
> ontology, in that only humans or groups there-of can be Actors and carry
> out Productions or Creations, so there is no ambiguity about non-humans
> making these.
> This issue was discussed at length, and has been open in our profile’s
> tracker for 12 months now. We would greatly prefer that it be solved by
> changing the labels in the documentation, and thereby in the RDFS,
> rather than other RDF specific approaches such as minting new terms and
> using owl:sameAs to assert equality, or rebranding only in the JSON-LD
> serialization but persisting in other serializations. The change is
> consistent, reduces the length of the class names, and is an easy
> substitution. The comprehensibility of the label is still the same.
> Given the renaming of Collection to Curated Holding, migration of
> existing data has the same solution - just substitute the labels.
> As a second choice, if the above is not acceptable, we propose to
> instead replace “Man-“ with “Human-“ … only two additional characters,
> but a bit more of a mouthful.
> Many thanks for your engagement with this issue!
> Rob
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