[Crm-sig] Parent of F4 Manifestation Singleton

Øyvind Eide lister at oeide.no
Tue Sep 18 15:19:06 EEST 2018


Well, performances are usually not part of library or museum collections. The theatre museums I have worked with collect artefacts, texts, stage models etc. etc. but not performances. They do collect traces of performances though: reviews, programmes, posters, stage drawings, costumes, video recordings etc.

But once an information system is created the performances find their natural place there. As they do in CRM and FRBR. 

Another thing is the performative aspects of art forms traditionally not seen as performative, such as literature. As far as I know this is still a disputed area. 

All the best,

Øyvind

> Am 18.09.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>:
> 
> Dear George,
> 
> How nice! 
> 
> I believe the concept of "Expression" as something permanent, i.e., the FRBR concept of it, actually confuses the problem. "Expression" is to my understanding a process, an activity, and only in a second meaning the product. I do not see any difference to lots of best singers of the world performing in their bath rooms. 
> 
> What is the point in knowing the absolutely greatest work of art? A Zen master was asked what the most valuable thing in the world is. He answered: the head of a dead cat. Why? because nobody would give a price for it...;-)
> 
> We have discussed the "Expression Creation", the actually genuine Expression, as a process of externalization, and attempt to communicate something.  I'd say  things become culturally relevant by their social impact, and that is what we document.
> 
> If we would generalize over that, the result of an "Expression Creation" would be anything left on another carrier, be it in the heart of an audience, or on paper, or any other form. If the identity condition of such an Expression Creation is in the intention, carriers lost in the process as in your example would qualify. On the other side, if someone is eavesdropping on the bathroom song, we may even then talk of an Expression, or? Then, the "creation" part is more specific, and may be incidental or accidentally flawed.
> 
> Anyway, I think this view would greatly simplify things.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/17/2018 10:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
>> I had this reference in mind, which I’ve been looking for for a long time:
>> 
>> https://books.google.gr/books?id=8Nbqn-7RKpYC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=woolfe+artist+napkin+water+painted+word&source=bl&ots=NLFB8BL-w9&sig=7HX0xB1GSR_l9D6TgsSKRCFoHyc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicu8WI58LdAhURaVAKHWZKBmoQ6AEwFXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=woolfe%20artist%20napkin%20water%20painted%20word&f=false <https://books.google.gr/books?id=8Nbqn-7RKpYC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=woolfe+artist+napkin+water+painted+word&source=bl&ots=NLFB8BL-w9&sig=7HX0xB1GSR_l9D6TgsSKRCFoHyc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicu8WI58LdAhURaVAKHWZKBmoQ6AEwFXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=woolfe%20artist%20napkin%20water%20painted%20word&f=false>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr. George Bruseker
>> R & D Engineer
>> 
>> Centre for Cultural Informatics
>> Institute of Computer Science
>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>> Science and Technology Park of Crete
>> Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
>> 
>> Tel.: +30 2810 391619   Fax: +30 2810 391638   E-mail: bruseker at ics.forth.gr <mailto:bruseker at ics.forth.gr>
>> URL: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2018, at 9:10 PM, Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/16/2018 3:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
>>>> Hi Thanasis,
>>>> 
>>>> Yes I would take it that that was the intention of the authors. Scribbling your master piece in water on the back of a torn napkin or so. So I would agree that the language should probably change to reflect that.
>>> Indeed, there are lots of inscriptions, texts written in notebooks etc. Need not be so exotic. Probably many manuscripts are not exclusive to one carrier.
>>> 
>>> But we have to check if in LRMoo it is already obsolete.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> George
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dr. George Bruseker
>>>> R & D Engineer
>>>> 
>>>> Centre for Cultural Informatics
>>>> Institute of Computer Science
>>>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>>> Science and Technology Park of Crete
>>>> Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
>>>> 
>>>> Tel.: +30 2810 391619   Fax: +30 2810 391638   E-mail: bruseker at ics.forth.gr <mailto:bruseker at ics.forth.gr>
>>>> URL: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 10, 2018, at 3:53 PM, Athanasios Velios <a.velios at arts.ac.uk <mailto:a.velios at arts.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I looked through the mailing list archive but could not find an answer for:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why is F4 Manifestation Singleton a child of E24 and not a child of E22?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Its scope note starts with: "This class comprises physical objects..."
>>>>> and we are always talking about a carrier. Are there any examples of
>>>>> features-carriers that I can't think of? If, when scratching a poem on a
>>>>> rocky mountain, the mountain is considered a carrier, then I think we
>>>>> should update the scope note to reflect that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanasis
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>>> -- 
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr> |
>>>                                                              |        
>>>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>>>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>>                                                              |
>>>                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>>>                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>>>                                                              |
>>>              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>           |
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr> |
>                                                              |        
>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                              |
>                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>                                                              |
>              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>           |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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