[Crm-sig] Parent of F4 Manifestation Singleton

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Tue Sep 18 12:54:22 EEST 2018


Dear George,

How nice!

I believe the concept of "Expression" as something permanent, i.e., the 
FRBR concept of it, actually confuses the problem. "Expression" is to my 
understanding a process, an activity, and only in a second meaning the 
product. I do not see any difference to lots of best singers of the 
world performing in their bath rooms.

What is the point in knowing the absolutely greatest work of art? A Zen 
master was asked what the most valuable thing in the world is. He 
answered: the head of a dead cat. Why? because nobody would give a price 
for it...;-)

We have discussed the "Expression Creation", the actually genuine 
Expression, as a process of externalization, and attempt to communicate 
something.  I'd say  things become culturally relevant by their social 
impact, and that is what we document.

If we would generalize over that, the result of an "Expression Creation" 
would be anything left on another carrier, be it in the heart of an 
audience, or on paper, or any other form. If the identity condition of 
such an Expression Creation is in the intention, carriers lost in the 
process as in your example would qualify. On the other side, if someone 
is eavesdropping on the bathroom song, we may even then talk of an 
Expression, or? Then, the "creation" part is more specific, and may be 
incidental or accidentally flawed.

Anyway, I think this view would greatly simplify things.

Cheers,

Martin



On 9/17/2018 10:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
> I had this reference in mind, which I’ve been looking for for a long 
> time:
>
> https://books.google.gr/books?id=8Nbqn-7RKpYC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=woolfe+artist+napkin+water+painted+word&source=bl&ots=NLFB8BL-w9&sig=7HX0xB1GSR_l9D6TgsSKRCFoHyc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicu8WI58LdAhURaVAKHWZKBmoQ6AEwFXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=woolfe%20artist%20napkin%20water%20painted%20word&f=false
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. George Bruseker
> R & D Engineer
>
> Centre for Cultural Informatics
> Institute of Computer Science
> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
> Science and Technology Park of Crete
> Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
>
> Tel.: +30 2810 391619   Fax: +30 2810 391638 E-mail: 
> bruseker at ics.forth.gr <mailto:bruseker at ics.forth.gr>
> URL: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
>> On Sep 17, 2018, at 9:10 PM, Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr 
>> <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/16/2018 3:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
>>> Hi Thanasis,
>>>
>>> Yes I would take it that that was the intention of the authors. 
>>> Scribbling your master piece in water on the back of a torn napkin 
>>> or so. So I would agree that the language should probably change to 
>>> reflect that.
>> Indeed, there are lots of inscriptions, texts written in notebooks 
>> etc. Need not be so exotic. Probably many manuscripts are not 
>> exclusive to one carrier.
>>
>> But we have to check if in LRMoo it is already obsolete.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Martin
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Dr. George Bruseker
>>> R & D Engineer
>>>
>>> Centre for Cultural Informatics
>>> Institute of Computer Science
>>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>> Science and Technology Park of Crete
>>> Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
>>>
>>> Tel.: +30 2810 391619   Fax: +30 2810 391638 E-mail: 
>>> bruseker at ics.forth.gr <mailto:bruseker at ics.forth.gr>
>>> URL:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2018, at 3:53 PM, Athanasios Velios <a.velios at arts.ac.uk 
>>>> <mailto:a.velios at arts.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I looked through the mailing list archive but could not find an 
>>>> answer for:
>>>>
>>>> Why is F4 Manifestation Singleton a child of E24 and not a child of 
>>>> E22?
>>>>
>>>> Its scope note starts with: "This class comprises physical objects..."
>>>> and we are always talking about a carrier. Are there any examples of
>>>> features-carriers that I can't think of? If, when scratching a poem 
>>>> on a
>>>> rocky mountain, the mountain is considered a carrier, then I think we
>>>> should update the scope note to reflect that.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Thanasis
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>>
>> -- 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                 |  Email:martin at ics.forth.gr  |
>>                                                               |
>>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>>                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>>                                                               |
>>               Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl            |
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-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                              |
              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------

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