[Crm-sig] ISSUE: representing compound name strings

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Thu Nov 22 19:47:24 EET 2018

Dear Richard, Robert,

It is simply wrong that encoding structured data into an rdfs:Literal 
makes it invisible to SPARQL. It is exactly what xsd:dateTime does. The 
year, month, etc., is available to querying individually in SPARQL, not 
by magic but by a standard extension mechanism. It is a question to IT 
experts to tell us how to upload into the SPARQL code the respective 
string functions for other compounds. If we decide one standard way to 
encode the person name compounds, that would be quite feasible. 
Interoperability is in any case given with a trivial mapping, because 
standard SPARQL recognizes any custom datatype. Of course we would also 
provide standard string functions to take the compound apart. For this 
discussion we need a completely informed decision.

We must really be more aware how badly current RDF platforms still 
perform with longer property paths. There are *good reasons* why time, 
geometry and others are not encoded with rdf properties.

The first question we have to answer is A) how many compounds we need 
that must be queried component-wise. Then we should find B) the*best XML 
representation regardless *platforms. Then we discuss C) how that should 
go into RDFS.

I propose for A):

1) miles-yards.... American Standard Lengths "A mile is *exactly 
1.609344* kilometers. Yes, the mile has a metric 
<https://www.mathsisfun.com/measure/metric-length.html> definition." 

2) Person Name compounds,

3) Street address compounds

I propose for B)

  2) following either TEI or RDA guidlines. I do not propose to use MARC 
tags as is. The translation into XML elements is trivial syntactic sugar 
(and exists, I think). The relevant question is, if the *analysis is 
effective or not.

*I propose for C)*

*to find out if anybody has solved the problem already. *

*So, does anybody propose a good-practice analysis of name compounds?


On 11/22/2018 10:21 AM, Richard Light wrote:
> On 21/11/2018 22:43, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>> All,
>> My concern with this approach is that standard mechanisms for 
>> interacting with the data will not expect these sorts of compound 
>> values.  This would also affect other ongoing discussions, such as 
>> compound monetary amounts or other dimensions.
>> For example, if there are subfield indicators or XML elements 
>> embedded within a literal, rather than using the model to manage this 
>> information, queries at the model level will not work. If “Dr” is not 
>> a separate Appellation from “Snoopy”, with an appropriate Type 
>> associated with it to ensure it is known to be a prefix rather than a 
>> first name, it will be invisible to SPARQL or any other graph query 
>> language.
>> For names, which already support partitioning, the answer seems 
>> obvious to me that we should continue to use the model as intended.  
>> The consistency for compound dimensions needs further discussion.  
>> Similarly the value range for dimensions should follow existing 
>> patterns (P81a anyone?) rather than trying to embed one format within 
>> another.
> Martin's original suggestion involved identifying contexts where we 
> could express compound values as a single string. This approach 
> potentially has merit where such a string, as a whole, is in a format 
> which is meaningful within existing systems and processible by 
> existing software.  As you say, there is a direct trade-off between 
> the convenience and structural simplicity of having a single string 
> (and an associated single 'unit') and the [lack of] potential for 
> native RDF querying of the contents of that string.
> I think it is more of a loss to be unable to query on people with 
> forename "Richard" than to be unable to query all dimensions involving 
> '6 inches'.  So I agree that we should not pursue this particular line 
> of thought.
> As regards using an XML encoding within a literal, I think this would 
> be a /really /bad idea. It would require the provision of an XML 
> parser and support tools within the context of all RDF serializations 
> (Turtle, JSON, ...).  RDF/XML has provision for embedded XML, but this 
> wouldn't help for any other serialization of the RDF.
> Richard
>> Rob
>> *From: *Crm-sig <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Martin 
>> Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 2:11 PM
>> *To: *"crm-sig at ics.forth.gr" <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: representing compound name strings
>> Dear Richard,
>> XML is even better. The distinction between XML tags and MARC 
>> subfield markers is not so substantial. An XML file is still a 
>> string. The question is about RDF, putting a compound into rdfs:Literal.
>> So, again, is there a good practice with XML elements ????
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>> On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, Richard Light wrote:
>>     On 15/11/2018 21:28, Martin Doerr wrote:
>>         Dear All,
>>         I would expect that the library or archival community do have
>>         a good practice how to "squeeze" a compound name, such as :
>>         "His Majesty Dr. Snoopy Hickup Miller Jr", with respective
>>         separators, in a machine readable string, that could be used
>>         as custom datatype in an rdfs:Literal as one instance of
>>         Appellation, rather than defining all possible name
>>         constituents as individual rdf properties.
>>         Could be a MARC string? XML? TEI?
>>         This would be very helpful for our users.
>>     Martin,
>>     I'm pretty sure that the most recent attempt at doing this will
>>     be the subfield markers ($a, etc.) in MARC. which date from the
>>     era of punched cards.  The requirement that all of the name
>>     appears in a single string will rule out anything that might have
>>     been done in XML (where you might typically use attributes or
>>     subelements) or TEI (which is, after all, simply an XML application).
>>     It's a nice idea, which follows the approach of encoding one
>>     'compound' value as a single string, but I don't think we will
>>     find a ready-made standard for it.
>>     Richard
>>         Best,
>>         Martin
>>     -- 
>>     *Richard Light*
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Crm-sig mailing list
>>     Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr <mailto:Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
>>     http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>>   Honorary Head of the
>>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>>   Information Systems Laboratory
>>   Institute of Computer Science
>>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>>   Email:martin at ics.forth.gr <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>   
>>   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> -- 
> *Richard Light*
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

  Dr. Martin Doerr
  Honorary Head of the
  Center for Cultural Informatics
  Information Systems Laboratory
  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr
  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20181122/3764a40b/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Crm-sig mailing list