[Crm-sig] issue-288-AV_MD.doc

Martin Doerr martin at ics.forth.gr
Thu Jan 11 16:39:29 EET 2018


Dear Richard,

Your comments well-taken, but I regard it as pointless to use less 
precise data types. This is, to my opinion, exclusively an issue of 
automatic conversion
in the data entry forms. We at FORTH have conversion libraries. Data 
entry utility ("ca 730 BC") must not be confused with internal data 
representation for interoperability (xsd:....), and not with 
ontological-logical modelling (time as isomorphic with real numbers).

I do not know how RDF-compatible databases do arithmetic with mix of 
time data types. Any insight? We must avoid meaningless equality between 
imprecise dates. I assume there is no default interval arithmetic in 
place that could handle 28-6-1951 to be possibly before something that 
happened in "1951" .

I copy to Christian-Emil, because he should give us his theory of 
negative P81 intervals.

Best,

Martin



On 1/11/2018 3:50 PM, Richard Light wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Not all of my corrections were picked up. Updated version (with some 
> other minor changes) attached. I tried desperately to switch on 'track 
> changes' (saving it as .docx in an attempt to do so), but I have no 
> idea whether Word has actually done this. I did try!
>
> I wonder if it is helpful to include the paragraph about overlapping 
> 'end of begin' and 'begin of end': the concept is already hard enough 
> to understand without throwing this into the mix.
>
> As regards the substance of the proposal, I would observe that there 
> are other W3C date types, for example gDate and gYear [1].  I agree 
> with the goal of expressing dates in a way which is amenable to 
> machine processing, but the suggested approach appears to require 
> users to record to a spurious precision, which will never be present 
> in the source data.
>
No, see above.
>
> (If we're following W3C guidelines in full, a DateTime value should 
> have an associated time zone, declared explicitly or implicitly 
> assumed to be UTC.  We don't actually give an example showing this.)
>
Yes, of course.
>
> I suggest, instead, that we say that when a W3C date, of whatever 
> sort, is given as the value of P81a or P82a, then it should be 
> interpreted as representing the /beginning /of the time period 
> expressed by that date.  When such a date is given as the value of 
> P81b or P82b, it should be interpreted as representing the /end /of 
> the time period expressed by that date.  (Re-reading the text, I do 
> wonder if this is what was actually meant.  It depends what you mean 
> by "the implementation". If so, I certainly misunderstood it the first 
> time around.)
>
Yes, that's what I meant, but at data entry time. We have an interpreter 
for the AAT guidelines how to record time, which has all those "ca" etc. 
There is also the "display date P79, P80, to capture the scholarly 
expression.
>
> I think the guidance should contain examples using both gYear and 
> gDate, showing how to record e.g. "date of birth recorded as 
> 4.12.1854" and "building not started before 1736; definitely happening 
> 1745-1750; finished by 1754 when it was opened" as RDF.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Richard
>
> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#gYear
>
Best,

Martin
>
>
> On 10/01/2018 19:38, Martin Doerr wrote:
>>
>> Here my latest edits, thanks to Richard's comments:-)
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                 |  Email:martin at ics.forth.gr  |
>>                                                               |
>>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>>                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>>                                                               |
>>               Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl            |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -- 
> *Richard Light*


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                              |
              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------

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