[Crm-sig] HW S11

Дарья Юрьевна Гук hookk at hermitage.ru
Tue Apr 10 16:57:01 EEST 2018


Maybe I am not right, but a state of conservation is under discussion. "Vasari" before of after restoration. Is it the same identity? Same Vasari, artefact could change form but we tell about it "the same item". 


With kind regards,
Daria Hookk

Senior Researcher of
the dept. of archaeology of
Eastern Europe and Siberia of 
the State Hermitage Museum,
ICOMOS member


190000, Санкт-Петербург, Дворцовая наб.34
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E-mail: hookk at hermitage.ru



----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Doerr [mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr]
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Sent: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:05:02 +0400
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] HW S11


> Dear All,
> 
> By the way, an interesting aspect of samples is that they can be split 
> without loosing their identity. Obviously, there is
> some complexity in the object-ness of the sample versus its substance. 
> Tracing split samples is a practical issue in labs.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Best,
> 
> martin
> 
> On 4/10/2018 1:16 PM, Martin Doerr wrote:
> > Dear Martijn,
> >
> > A better formulation is always welcome!
> >
> > Logically, it is correct: "no stability of form is required" does NOT 
> > exclude stability of form. I give explicitly the example "the sequence 
> > of layers of a bore core". The point is, that we take a sample for a 
> > particular feature it will be a witness for. The identity of the 
> > sample and its duration of existence as a sample depends on the kind 
> > of feature that needs to be preserved, be it a stratigraphy, a 
> > chemical composition or whatever. Consequently, it can be diminished 
> > quite substanstially without loosing this identity, whereas other 
> > impacts may not change its discreteness as a stable piece of matter, 
> > but destroy the relevant composition.
> >
> > Proposals welcome.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 4/9/2018 11:15 PM, P.M. van Leusen wrote:
> >> "no stability of form is required" would exclude some types of 
> >> samples, e.g. kubiena tin samples taken for microstratigraphy, 
> >> palynology, or paleomagnetism. I would advise excising this phrase.
> >> Martijn
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 21:19 Martin Doerr <martin at ics.forth.gr 
> >> <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Dear All,
> >>
> >>     Here my proposal for a better scope note:
> >>
> >>
> >>           S11 Amount of Matter[1]
> >>
> >>     Subclass of: S10
> >>     <#m_2886038186972212311__S10_Material_Substantial> Material
> >>     Substantial
> >>
> >>     Superclass of:S12 <#m_2886038186972212311__S12_Amount_of> Amount
> >>     of Fluid
> >>
> >>     S13 <#m_2886038186972212311__S13_Sample> Sample
> >>
> >>     Scope note:This class comprises fixed amounts of matter specified
> >>     as some air, some water, some soil, etc., defined by the total
> >>     and integrity of their material content. In order to be able to
> >>     identify and recognize in practice one instance of S11 Amount of
> >>     Matter, some sort of confinement is needed that serves as a
> >>     constraint for the enclosed matter and the integrity of the
> >>     content, such as a bottle. In contrast to instances of E18
> >>     Physical Thing, no stability of form is required. The content may
> >>     be put into another bottle without loosing its identity.
> >>     Subclasses may define very different identity conditions for the
> >>     integrity of the content, such as chemical composition, or the
> >>     sequence of layers of a bore core. Whereas an instance of E18
> >>     Physical Thing may gradually change form and chemical composition
> >>     preserving its identity, such as living beings, an instance of
> >>     S11 Amount of Matter may loose its identifying features by such
> >>     processes. What matters for the identity of an instance of S1
> >>     Amount of Matter is the preservation of a relevant composition
> >>     from the initial state of definition on.
> >>
> >>    
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>     -- 
> >>     --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>       Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
> >>       Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
> >>                                     |  Email:martin at ics.forth.gr
> <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>  |
> >>                                                                   |
> >>                     Center for Cultural Informatics               |
> >>                     Information Systems Laboratory                |
> >>                      Institute of Computer Science                |
> >>         Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
> >>                                                                   |
> >>                     N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
> >>                      GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
> >>                                                                   |
> >>                   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl            |
> >>     --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     Crm-sig mailing list
> >>     Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr <mailto:Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
> >>     http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> >>
> >
> > -- 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
> >   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
> >                                 |  Email:martin at ics.forth.gr  |
> >                                                               |
> >                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
> >                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
> >                  Institute of Computer Science                |
> >     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
> >                                                               |
> >                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
> >                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
> >                                                               |
> >               Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl            |
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Crm-sig mailing list
> > Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> 
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                 |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>                                                               |
>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                               |
>                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>                                                               |
>               Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 



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