[Crm-sig] Rights model

Stephen Stead steads at paveprime.com
Tue Mar 21 08:25:50 EET 2017

The question of a Right held by multiple people is indeed interesting.
Might it be modelled as all parties forming a Group that then holds the Right?
If the proportions of the Right held by individuals was important then I think your suggestion of component Rights that form part of the overall Right and each having a dimension would do very well.

Stephen Stead
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-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Robert Sanderson
Sent: 20 March 2017 21:42
To: martin <martin at ics.forth.gr>; crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Rights model

Apologies for the delay in responding, we’ve been trying to map out the extent of the information we need to track to enable research on historical art markets and ownership.

One of the most interesting and challenging questions that has come up is around joint ownership of a piece of art.  Ownership of an object is clearly a Right, but is it divisible with P148_has_component (via inheritance from E89)?  For example, if two Persons each own 50% of the value of an object, is there an Ownership Right, which has two component Rights, each of which have a dimension of 50% ?

Or would that mean that there are two halves of the expression of the Right, perhaps the main clause and an equally long rider?

I think that answering this question will help with the broader question of the meaning of E30.

Some use cases:
 * Two dealers (Knoedler and Goupil) jointly pay for a painting, and later jointly share the profits (or loss!) when it’s sold
 * A donor donates 10% of the value of an object each year for 10 years (to spread out the tax write off)
 * A married couple divorce and agree to have half share in the value of their statue
 * The children of the owner inherit an equal share of the valuable manuscript on the owner’s death
 * The object is jointly owned by the city and the museum from when the city and museum were indistinguishable as organizations

Many thanks,


On 3/10/17, 9:53 AM, "Crm-sig on behalf of martin" <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr on behalf of martin at ics.forth.gr> wrote:

    On 28/2/2017 9:50 μμ, Robert Sanderson wrote:
    > Dear all,
    > Given the current model, I believe that E30 Right is an instance of the holding of a Right, rather than the concept of the Right itself?  For example, E30 is not “Copyright” or “Apache 2.0” or “Ownership” … it is “The holding of copyright of an object by Martin”, “the use of Apache 2.0 for some code by Rob”, or “Ownership of a house by Emma”.
    Dear Robert,
    Yes, here we should actually talk about three things: The holding of the 
    right, the content of the right, and the concept of the right. E30 is 
    intended to be the content of the right, which is relatively trivial if 
    it is just an instance of unspecified copyright, but not if it is an 
    individual contract. If the holding of the right can be merged with the 
    content or not, is to be discussed. See my previous message.
    > If this is not intended to be the case, can someone provide an example in RDF (your serialization preference is fine) that demonstrates two different people holding two different rights over the same object?
    > Given that … we are expected to then use P2_has_type to refer to the sort of Right, and thus queries should look for: ?object P104_is_subject_to ?right . ?right P2_has_type <actual_right> .
    > If so, how would one refer to the Creative Commons licenses? Still with P2?
    > Many thanks!
    > Rob
    > Example of P104/P105/P75:
    > {
    >    "@context": "https://linked.art/ns/context/1/full.jsonld",
    >    "@id": "https://linked.art/example/object/31",
    >    "@type": "crm:E22_Man-Made_Object",
    >    "rdfs:label": "Object",
    >    "crm:P104_is_subject_to": [
    >      "https://linked.art/example/Right/0",
    >      "https://linked.art/example/Right/1"
    >    ],
    >    "crm:P105_right_held_by": [
    >      {
    >        "@id": "https://linked.art/example/actor/6",
    >        "@type": "crm:E39_Actor",
    >        "rdfs:label": "Owner",
    >        "crm:P75_possesses": {
    >          "@id": "https://linked.art/example/Right/0",
    >          "@type": "crm:E30_Right",
    >          "rdfs:label": "Ownership Right by Owner of Object"
    >        }
    >      },
    >      {
    >        "@id": "https://linked.art/example/actor/7",
    >        "@type": "crm:E39_Actor",
    >        "rdfs:label": "Holder",
    >        "crm:P75_possesses": {
    >          "@id": "https://linked.art/example/Right/1",
    >          "@type": "crm:E30_Right",
    >          "rdfs:label": "Copyright by Holder of Object['s information object]"
    >        }
    >      }
    >    ]
    > }
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