[Crm-sig] 6.2.2's MonetaryAmount and Currency

Chryssoula Bekiari bekiari at ics.forth.gr
Wed Jan 4 15:07:35 EET 2017

Dear Richard

About the releases of the text of CIDOC CRM, I would like to note that, 
in the the 36th meeting, taken place in August in Crete, it is proposed 
and accepted to separate publications into categories: Official, 
Published and Current and to add the 'editorial status' in the each 
cidoc crm text.
If the Type of Document is Official or Published then the editorial 
status is closed. This means that this document is no longer under 
editorial revision. It is no longer subject to change and its contents 
will remain stable.
If the Type of Document is Current then the editorial status is open. 
This is an un revised and as yet incomplete community version of the 
CIDOC CRM. It is the currently edited version of the CIDOC CRM text and 
represents a working version of the CIDOC CRM and should not be used for 
implementation, reference or other official purposes. The function of 
this document is as a reference resource for developers of the CIDOC CRM 
standard to discuss on-going, proposed but not yet accepted changes to 
the model. The contents of this document are not stable and are subject 
to change. In this case, we distinguish two types of editorial status, 
the following:
"In Progress": This current  version of CIDOC CRM contains open issues 
that are actively being worked on. The document may therefore change at 
any time since it is being updating according with the last CIDOC CRM 
SIG meeting discussions and their conclusions. This copy of the standard 
should be used only for the purpose of following present modelling 
discussions on the CIDOC CRM SIG meeting. This document is not meant to 
support implementations, referencing or other official activities.
"Under Revision". This  current version of the CIDOC CRM standard 
contains open issues that have been declared and specified and which are 
scheduled to be addressed in an upcoming meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG. 
The document may change relative to decisions taken at the next CIDOC 
CRM SIG meeting. This copy of the standard should be used only for the 
purpose of following present modelling discussions on the CIDOC CRM SIG 
list and meetings. It represents a step before a potential stable 
release of the standard. This document is not meant to support 
implementations, referencing or other official activities. (see also 

Thus the latest 'current' version of CIDOC CRM 6.2.2 is on the site with 
editorial status 'Under Revision since 2/12/2016' 
and it contains the E96 Purchase.
This version does not contain yet the latest changes made in the Berlin 
meeting. New current version will be uploaded until January 15.

Any comments or recommendations for this process are welcome

with my best wishes for a happy and productive  2017


On 4/1/2017 10:23 πμ, Richard Light wrote:
> On 2017-01-03 11:01 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> At the Getty, we are currently remodeling our Provenance Index data into Linked Open Data.  As you might expect, there is a lot of historical payment information related to the transfer of ownership of objects.  We were very happy to see that 6.2.2 adds in some of the foundational modeling for supporting this information.  The scope notes in the current draft are a little unclear for Monetary_Amount and Currency, however.
> The version of 6.2.2 on the old web site [1] doesn't include P96 
> Purchase, so I can't comment on this in detail.  (In fact, the .doc 
> version of the current release is actually headed 6.2.1. Still, this 
> is better than the 'new' site [2], where the current release that is 
> offered is 5.0.4 from December 2011.  I think some updating is required.)
>> We are assuming that the Amount the face value of the money (e.g. $100 USD is always the amount 100 of the currency USD) regardless of the actual _value_ of that amount. If this is correct, then could the scope notes confirm this?
>> All currency amounts have an absolute value that changes constantly due to inflation and markets, and there’s no way to associate a date with the amount instance to capture this.  This seems somewhat in conflict with being a subclass of Dimension, which is “the true quantity, independent from its numerical approximation, e.g. in inches or in cm.” – in other words the absolute value, independent of the unit, which is in this case the currency.
> Assuming that E96 Purchase is a subclass of E7 Activity, it will have 
> the opportunity to record an associated date.  I think you are 
> over-thinking what it is feasible to record here: if a specified price 
> was paid for an object on a specified date, surely that's all you need 
> to record - in fact it's all you can record. It is for others to make 
> their own deductions as to the 'real' value (in some sense) of that 
> monetary amount.
>> As a thought experiment, if the unit of an “inch” were to change definition to be exactly 2.5 centimeters, then I believe from the description of Dimension, that the lengths would remain the same in absolute value, and we would need a new unit for “new inches”.  This is not practical for currency, as we would need new units constantly … which is also forbidden by the scope notes of currency: “One monetary system has only one currency”.  So how are we to deal with comparisons over time?
> I think that the only case where we should be making this sort of 
> distinction is where the currency itself changes its 'semantics': for 
> example the revaluation of the French franc in 1960.
>> And in either case, it would be correct to have all uses of $100 USD refer to the exact same resource… there need only be one Monetary_Amount that has a particular value and currency … $100 is $100, regardless.  The practical implication is that Monetary_Amount URIs could be constructed algorithmically along the lines ofhttp://example.org/Monetary_Amount/dollars/100.  This doesn’t seem to be affected by face value vs actual value, but confirmation would be appreciated.
> Again I can't comment on what the 'official' line on this might be, 
> but there are analogies here for other measurement-like entities, such 
> as dates [e.g. 3].  While there may be advantages to 'quantizing' 
> dates (given the inherent uncertainty in deciding when an 
> event/activity happened, and the possibility it opens up of matching 
> on the 'same' date) I think there is less of a case for doing this to 
> monetary amounts.  If they are recorded as a numerical value, it is 
> straightforward to add them up, and to make comparisons ('find all 
> transactions with a value greater than $10,000'), etc.  With a URL for 
> the amount, you lose this ability.
>> Secondly, and this is likely out of scope for the CRM at this stage, we have a requirement to model where the money comes from and goes to.  For example, there are many occurrences of dealers owning only a part share of an expensive artwork, and the payment being divided according to that share amongst the owning dealers.  For this we need more than just a Monetary_Amount associated with a Purchase, and have been using a new subclass of Activity a “Payment” with properties mirroring transfer of ownership:  paid_amount, paid_to and paid_from.
> I agree that this would be generally useful.  Another element of this 
> Payment activity would be a description of the good or benefit that is 
> transferred in return for the payment.
> Best wishes,
> Richard
> [1] http://old.cidoc-crm.org/official_release_cidoc.html
> [2] http://new.cidoc-crm.org/get-last-official-release
> [2] http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-665/CorrendoEtAl_COLD2010.pdf
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> -- 
> *Richard Light*
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

Chryssoula Bekiari
Research and Development Engineer

Center for Cultural Informatics / Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

N. Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR-700 13 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
Phone: +30 2810 391631, Fax: +30 2810 391638, Skype: xrysmp
E-mail: bekiari at ics.forth.gr
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl/index_main.php?l=e&c=231

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20170104/43cb85e4/attachment.html>

More information about the Crm-sig mailing list