[Crm-sig] Money, money, money...

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Fri Feb 6 14:00:06 EET 2015


Dear All,

I think the issue of business transactions with monetary exchange and other
exchange goods is overdue.
In order to address this in CRM-SIG, we need a some database schema/ 
data structure
in scope we can take as empirical material.
I believe acquisition of museum objects is one area of application. 
Another, I was
just recently pointed to, is transcription of Bronce Age texts.

Please propose as many data structures as possible to study requirements.

Best,

Martin

On 6/2/2015 2:12 πμ, Stephen Stead wrote:
> Dan
> I stick by my original points.
> It is not P16 used specific object unless you want to refer to a particular
> coin or note ie this is the coin that was used to buy the pen that was used
> to sign the treaty.
> Rgds
> SdS
>
> Stephen Stead
> Tel +44 20 8668 3075
> Mob +44 7802 755 013
> E-mail steads at paveprime.com
> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Dan Matei
> Sent: 05 February 2015 20:48
> To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr; vladimir.alexiev at ONTOTEXT.COM
> Subject: [Crm-sig] Money, money, money...
>
> Dear all
>
> I have to state a "simple" fact: "The object X is purchased with Y euro."
>
> I found the 2011 discussion between Vladimir Alexiev and Stephen Stead on
> this topic:
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2011-November/001693.html
>
> I'm not quite happy with their conclusion :-(
>
> Two issues:
>
> A.	The relationship between the purchasing event and the money paid
>
> I think that the natural relationship between the crm:E8_Acquisition and the
> amount paid (Y) is crm:P16_used_specific_object.
>
> [P16 SN: This property describes the use of material or immaterial things in
> a way essential to the performance or the outcome of an E7 Activity.]
>
> The money is "essential to the performance" of the acquisition, no ? :-)
>
>
> B.	Which is the right class of the "money" ?
>
> B.1. The amount is a crm: E72_Legal_Object, right ?
>
> [E72 SN: This class comprises those material or immaterial items to which
> instances of E30 Right, such as the right of ownership or use, can be
> applied.]
>
> Rights apply to money, right ?
>
> So, my (first) solution is:
>
> [
>      {
>          "@id": "#X",
>          "@type": "crm:E22_Man-Made_Object",
>          "statement": {
>              "@id": "#s1",
>              "predicate": "crm:P24i_changed_ownership_through",
>              "object": "#purchase"
>          }
>      },
>      {
>          "@id": "#purchase",
>          "@type": "crm:E8_Acquisition",
>          "statement": {
>              "@id": "#s2",
>              "predicate": "crm:P16_used_specific_object",
>              "predicateQualifier": "#amountPaid",
>              "object": "#price"
>          }
>      },
>      {
>          "@id": "#price",
>          "@type": "crm:E72_Legal_Object",
>          "statement": [
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s3",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P2_has_type",
>                  "object": "#currency"
>              },
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s4",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P43_has_dimension",
>                  "object": "#amount"
>              }
>          ]
>      },
>      {
>          "@id": "#amount",
>          "@type": "crm:E54_Dimension",
>          "statement": [
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s5",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P2_has_type",
>                  "object": "#sum"
>              },
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s6",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P90_has_value",
>                  "object": {
>                      "@value": "Y",
>                      "@type": "xsd:integer"
>                  }
>              },
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s7",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P91_has_unit",
>                  "object": "#euro"
>              }
>          ]
>      }
> ]
>
> A bit long... And the entity #price do not tells much.
>
>
> B.2. An amount of money is not an instance of crm: E54_Dimension ?
>
> [E54 SN: An instance of E54 Dimension represents the true quantity,
> independent from its numerical approximation, e.g. in inches or in cm.]
>
> A sum of money is not "a true quantity" ? I'm inclined to the affirmative.
> So, if I understand correctly the E54, I could use a double instantiation
> and shorten a bit my solution:
>
> [
>      {
>          "@id": "#X",
>          "@type": "crm:E22_Man-Made_Object",
>          "statement": {
>              "@id": "#s1",
>              "predicate": "crm:P24i_changed_ownership_through",
>              "object": "#purchase"
>          }
>      },
>      {
>          "@id": "#purchase",
>          "@type": "crm:E8_Acquisition",
>          "statement": {
>              "@id": "#s2",
>              "predicate": "crm:P16_used_specific_object",
>              "predicateQualifier": "#amountPaid",
>              "object": "#price"
>          }
>      },
>      {
>          "@id": "#price",
>          "@type": [
>              "crm:E72_Legal_Object",
>              "crm:E54_Dimension"
>          ],
>          "statement": [
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s3",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P2_has_type",
>                  "object": [
>                      "#currency",
>                      "#sum"
>                  ]
>              },
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s4",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P90_has_value",
>                  "object": {
>                      "@value": "Y",
>                      "@type": "xsd:integer"
>                  }
>              },
>              {
>                  "@id": "#s5",
>                  "predicate": "crm:P91_has_unit",
>                  "object": "#euro"
>              }
>          ]
>      }
> ]
>
> I.e. the amount of money is in the same time an instance of E72 AND E54.
>
> Is that legitimate ?
>
> Dan
>
>
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