[Crm-sig] *** ISSUE *** Revision of scope note for E73 Information Object to specifically include named graphs

Dominic Oldman DOLDMAN at britishmuseum.org
Mon Jul 28 12:34:43 EEST 2014


Hi Richard , All,

I am slightly confused about this discussion.

The purpose of the scope notes is to clarify the meaning of the entities and relationships that make up the CRM. The CRM models real world things both material and non-material.

Inclusion of a named graph example in the scope notes does not affect the technical independence of the standard. It simple says that this is an example (in this case) of a propositional object. We need to have examples that are practically useful and mean something to people.

In that context it personally bothers me not whether we have an example of a named graph or indeed other examples from other schema formats -  as long as it helps people to understand what a propositional object is (and its scope). We could equally use examples from other data schema worlds and again it would say nothing about the technical implementation of the CRM. None of these examples would affect the standard in terms of its neutrality. It’s an illustrative scope note, but is not part of the standard in the context you describe.

Examples need to be wide and varied and cater for all the different types of people that use the CRM and want to understand how it works.

Cheers,

Dominic










From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Richard Light
Sent: 28 July 2014 09:41
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] *** ISSUE *** Revision of scope note for E73 Information Object to specifically include named graphs

Martin,

I thought that a major merit of the CRM was that it was an abstract model, which could be instantiated using whatever technology was felt to be appropriate.  That being the case, I would be concerned if RDF-specific techniques were presented to the world as the only way in which a particular challenge ("implementing argumentation systems ...") could be tackled using the CRM.  Or are you talking specifically about RDF implementations of the CRM?

Why can't "premises and conclusions" be modelled using reification, so they can then be given a unique URI? This is the sort of approach which the BM has successfully deployed, as I understand it.  I would be grateful if someone could provide a really simple concrete example which shows the need for the named graph approach.

To pick up on the suggestion of using the AAT as an example: in what way is the AAT a named graph?  Surely it's a SKOS Concept Scheme (plus)?  I think it would be impossible to give an example of a "well-known" named graph, for the reasons Simon has been explaining.

Richard
On 25/07/2014 20:25, martin wrote:
Dear Richard,

At least in the implementations we use one triple can be in any number of graphs, even nested ones
(SESAME, Virtuoso, OWLIM).

The point Steve is making here that Named Graphs are the only way in which facts in a database can be
described as explicit content of multiple(!) information objects which are described (creation etc.) in the
same system. There is no other choice for implementing argumentation systems which explicitly describe
premises and conclusions as propositions in the database.


On 24/7/2014 11:03 πμ, Richard Light wrote:

I must say that I'm not so sure that named graphs are going to be particularly useful for implementations of the CRM.  As I understand it (and I don't claim to be an RDF expert), the idea of quads was invented so that "naked" RDF assertions could be given a "context".  The problem I have always had with that idea is that you only get one shot at it (i.e. you can only assign one context to any given triple).

Surely (a) we need to be able to express multiple contexts for statements made within the CRM, (b) we have already developed a rich enough use of RDF to allow us to do so.

Richard
On 24/07/2014 05:57, Simon Spero wrote:

The AAT might work.
I'm not entirely sure that named graphs are propositional objects as defined in the CRM, but I think the definition is loose enough.

Named graphs are not graphs that are named; they are a tuple of an IRI (which is a name), and graph (which is the set of propositions). If the name is a proposition, it is not one in the graph it is associated with.

If Propositional objects can include parts which are not propositions then there is no problem- though it would seem more natural to have information objects only part of which are propositional.
That would be a bit too  big a change this far down the road ; if named graphs can't fit directly, graphs themselves would; these could be part of named graphs.
I am not sure if "The encoding structure known as a “named graph” also falls
under this class, so that each “named graph” is an instance of an E73
Information Object." is the right way to say it.

May be better "information encoded as named
graphs may represent instances of E73 Information object including an explicit representation of contents".
Since it is an encoding construct, it may represent other things as well. In a sense,
it is trivial that any RDF File is an information object, but it is not trivial if a part of the content
of an RDF File represents (,not "is",) an information object in its own right.
I would rather put that at the end of the scope note as an implementation note.

On Jul 24, 2014 12:15 AM, "Stephen Stead" <steads at paveprime.com<mailto:steads at paveprime.com>> wrote:
Can you think of a named graph that would be sufficiently iconic to make a
good example?
Rgds
SdS

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075<tel:%2B44%2020%208668%203075>
Mob +44 7802 755 013<tel:%2B44%207802%20755%20013>
E-mail steads at paveprime.com<mailto:steads at paveprime.com>
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads


-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr<mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr>] On Behalf Of Øyvind Eide
Sent: 23 July 2014 15:12
To: crm-sig
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] *** ISSUE *** Revision of scope note for E73
Information Object to specifically include named graphs

Dear Steve,

This sounds good to me. Do you think an example of a named graph should be
added as well?

Best,

Øyvind

On 18. juli 2014, at 08:44, Stephen Stead wrote:

> Dear CRM-SIG
> I would like to suggest the following revision to the scope note for E73
Information Object. Its intention is to specifically mention “named graphs”
as being instances of E73 Information Object. As we look at implementation
of the CRM it is becoming increasingly obvious that “named graphs” are going
to be a particularly useful tool, it would therefore seem handy if we
explicitly mentioned that they live in E73!
> Best regards
> SdS
>
>
> Current Scope Note
> E73 Information Object
> Subclass of:        E89 Propositional Object
> E90 Symbolic Object
> Superclass of:    E29 Design or Procedure
> E31 Document
> E33 Linguistic Object
> E36 Visual Item
>
> Scope note:        This class comprises identifiable immaterial items,
such as a poems, jokes, data sets, images, texts, multimedia objects,
procedural prescriptions, computer program code, algorithm or mathematical
formulae, that have an objectively recognizable structure and are documented
as single units.
>
> An E73 Information Object does not depend on a specific physical carrier,
which can include human memory, and it can exist on one or more carriers
simultaneously.
> Instances of E73 Information Object of a linguistic nature should be
declared as instances of the E33 Linguistic Object subclass. Instances of
E73 Information Object of a documentary nature should be declared as
instances of the E31 Document subclass. Conceptual items such as types and
classes are not instances of E73 Information Object, nor are ideas without a
reproducible expression.
> Examples:
> §  image BM000038850.JPG from the Clayton Herbarium in London §  E. A.
> Poe's "The Raven"
> §  the movie "The Seven Samurai" by Akira Kurosawa §  the Maxwell
> Equations
> Properties:
>
> Revised Scope Note
>
> E73 Information Object
> Subclass of:        E89 Propositional Object
> E90 Symbolic Object
> Superclass of:    E29 Design or Procedure
> E31 Document
> E33 Linguistic Object
> E36 Visual Item
>
> Scope note:        This class comprises identifiable immaterial items,
such as a poems, jokes, data sets, images, texts, multimedia objects,
procedural prescriptions, computer program code, algorithm or mathematical
formulae, that have an objectively recognizable structure and are documented
as single units. The encoding structure known as a “named graph” also falls
under this class, so that each “named graph” is an instance of an E73
Information Object.
>
> An E73 Information Object does not depend on a specific physical carrier,
which can include human memory, and it can exist on one or more carriers
simultaneously.
> Instances of E73 Information Object of a linguistic nature should be
declared as instances of the E33 Linguistic Object subclass. Instances of
E73 Information Object of a documentary nature should be declared as
instances of the E31 Document subclass. Conceptual items such as types and
classes are not instances of E73 Information Object, nor are ideas without a
reproducible expression.
> Examples:
> §  image BM000038850.JPG from the Clayton Herbarium in London §  E. A.
> Poe's "The Raven"
> §  the movie "The Seven Samurai" by Akira Kurosawa §  the Maxwell
> Equations
> Properties:
>
>
> Stephen Stead
> Director
> Paveprime Ltd
> 35 Downs Court Rd
> Purley, Surrey
> UK, CR8 1BF
> Tel +44 20 8668 3075
> Fax +44 20 8763 1739
> Mob +44 7802 755 013
> E-mail steads at paveprime.com<mailto:steads at paveprime.com>
> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr<mailto:Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig


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