[Crm-sig] A hoard as crm:E78_Collection ?

Simon Spero sesuncedu at gmail.com
Mon Dec 1 21:47:38 EET 2014


I'm not entirely sure that this is the right reading of Wickett et. al.;
the issue seems that in  the CRM, roles are conflated, or at least fused.

It is a plausible reading that  donating a private collection to an archive
must cause the identity of the collection to change (with the archival
collection being a derivative, (possibly improper) sub-collection of the
donated collection.

This could be the case if the intensional definition of the collection as
received by the archive necessarily includes the identity of the donor
(though presumably the indexing, once resolved, would not require the
identity of the collection to change if transferred to another
institution).

It could also be the case if the  collection policy /plan is an identity
criterion, and necessarily changes when the curator changes.

However this reading would seem to require any change in policy or plan to
form a new intensional collection, even if the change in policy is one that
a priori cannot change the contents or description of the former collection
(e.g an institution wide policy requiring that "all unicorns will be stored
in vibranium edged boxes").

Since I am rarely on the "same" page as Karen wrt identity I'm checking
with the editor :-)

Simon
On Nov 30, 2014 11:19 AM, "martin" <martin at ics.forth.gr> wrote:

>  Dear Simon,
>
> This is an interesting discussion. Preserving things others have collected
> has been described as
> "SECONDARY COLLECTOR CONTEXT" and is well distinguished in archival
> practice to my knowledge.
> See also:
> https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/45860/EDM-DCC_Whitepaper_Final20131009.pdf?sequence=3
> The case had been discussed when we defined E78. The "collection in the
> collection" can either be
> seen as one object in  a collection, or, if incompletely acquired , the
> secondary collection plan can be to acquire  the missing parts to the
> original collection, or, to continue the primary collector's plan. In any
> case, the original collector was a curator to the collection.
>
> All the best,
>
> Martin
>
> On 29/11/2014 11:57 μμ, Simon Spero wrote:
>
> The definition of Collection possibly overly restrictive, even from an
> archival point of view.
>
> An collection of records will probably have  been assembled by a different
> agent to the curator; materials may be discarded as "not archival", but if
> the fonds gets respect, the curator is not free to do much assembling.
>
> It is possible to finesse this by a sufficiently broad reading of "plan",
> but it seems as if the roles of assembling curating/preserving are
> intrinsically linked in the CRM (I ought to take a look at the old EAD
> mapping) .
>
> Simon
>  On Nov 29, 2014 3:32 PM, "Stephen Stead" <steads at paveprime.com> wrote:
>
>>  Martin
>>
>> The problem probably lies in the word “Collection”! Everyone reads that
>> and thinks that the defining characteristic is the act of collecting rather
>> than the true differentiator which is the curation.
>>
>> Perhaps changing the name to “E78 Curated Set” would solve the problem.
>> Nobody would know what it meant and so would read the scope note!!!!
>>
>> TTFN
>>
>> SdS
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen Stead
>>
>> Tel +44 20 8668 3075 <%2B44%2020%208668%203075>
>>
>> Mob +44 7802 755 013 <%2B44%207802%20755%20013>
>>
>> E-mail steads at paveprime.com
>>
>> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] *On Behalf Of *
>> martin
>> *Sent:* 29 November 2014 19:07
>> *To:* crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] A hoard as crm:E78_Collection ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Continuing:
>>
>> I don't know, why E78 Collection attracts so much attention. The scope
>> note of
>> E19 Physical Object says:
>>
>> "The class also includes all aggregates of objects made for functional
>> purposes of whatever kind, independent of physical coherence, such as a set
>> of chessmen. Typically, instances of E19 Physical Object can be moved (if
>> not too heavy)."
>>
>>
>> The CRM is not a terminological system to classify things. It is made to
>> provide relevant properties. We should only use a more specific class, if
>> we expect the respective additional  properties to be relevant for
>> querying. To say that an E19 "has type: Hoard" should be enough. Only if
>> we want to specify a curator and an E87 Curation Activity with a curation
>> plan, using E78 Collection would be adequate. The less classes we use, the
>> more effective the queries.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 29/11/2014 2:45 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>>
>> In the case a curator in a museum buries his collection, a hoard may be considered as as a collection. The collection class is intended for museum collections, see the examples in the scope note.
>>
>>
>>
>> C-E
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr <crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr>] On Behalf Of Dan Matei
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 1:30 PM
>>
>> To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>
>> Subject: [Crm-sig] A hoard as crm:E78_Collection ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Friends
>>
>>
>>
>> I have to say that a particular coin is a member of a particular hoard. I googled
>>
>> to see how others are dealing with that, but...
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm tempted to:
>>
>>
>>
>> <coin> <crm:P46i_forms_part_of> <hoard>
>>
>>
>>
>> <hoard> <rdf:type> <crm:E78_Collection>
>>
>>
>>
>> abusing a bit the E78 scope note:
>>
>>
>>
>> "This class comprises aggregations of instances of E18 Physical Thing that are
>>
>> assembled and maintained (“curated” and “preserved,” in museological
>>
>> terminology) by one or more instances of E39 Actor over time for a specific
>>
>> purpose and audience, and according to a particular collection development
>>
>> plan."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The "... according to a particular collection development plan." troubles me.
>>
>> Can we say that the guy burying a hoard had a "collection development plan" ?
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a better practice for modelling that ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. Not to mention that I would like to associate the discovery event with the
>>
>> hoard, not with the coin.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>
>>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>
>>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>>
>>                                                              |
>>
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>>
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>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>                                                              |
>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                              |
>                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>                                                              |
>              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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