[Crm-sig] A hoard as crm:E78_Collection ?

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Mon Dec 1 17:26:18 EET 2014


Dear Dan,

This is a deep methodological question:
"True that crm:E19_Physical_Object "includes all aggregates of objects", 
but I feel the need of something like crm:Fx_Assemblage between 
crm:E19_Physical_Object and E78_Collection, because I would like to make 
a clear (conceptual) distinction between:

<helmet>  <crm:Py_is_component_of> <armor> or <coin> < 
crm:Py_is_component_of > <hoard>

  and

<wheel>  <crm:P46i_forms_part_of> <car>"

This is not what we have made the CRM for. You SHOULD not make such a 
distinction,
if there is no use case that would create query ambiguity. CRM is not a 
language to describe the nuances of cultural heritage objects. Since a 
hoard cannot have parts like a car,  and a car not parts like a hoard, 
the distinction does not help in any query.

We all must be clear that the CRM is made ONLY for searching possibly 
related things across disciplines in a global network of knowledge. 
People don't use the CRM because it has already 150 properties. It is 
absolutely counterproductive to introduce more. Already,
it is impossible to write queries using all 150 properties without long 
preparation.

My position is, in order to capture the nuances of cultural heritage, we 
should write good scholarly texts, and not admire the brave new world of 
formal ontologies as the future scholarly language.

We must be absolutely clear that the wish of each scholar to make a 
clear (conceptual) distinction is not an argument for the CRM. If it 
would be, we would now, after 18 years,
struggle with millions of distinctions, and no chance people to 
understand the whole.
Only clear functional requirements that a search statement would become 
ambiguous or return too much noise is an argument.

Opinions?

Secondly, the reasons why we have decided not to introduce a 
"crm:Fx_Assemblage" is because for many things it is undecidable, if 
something is an assemblage or not. If you propose, you should provide 
evidence of the decidability. Further, no distinct property necessary 
for querying could be identified.

To make clear: I do not want to dominate the discussion. We have built 
the CRM because we had such principles. It is overdue to write them 
down. If E78 is problematic, if other senses of part_of are needed, if 
"crm:Fx_Assemblage" is adequate, must be a COMMON agreement that we 
apply the same principles.

If you agree that these my arguments above are a correct application of 
these principle, and if you then disagree with the principles, we have 
to discuss the principles and not the E78. If you find that I wrongly 
apply the principles, we all should be happy to receive new issues to 
the CRM.

Opinions?

Cheers,

Martin



On 1/12/2014 3:17 ??, Dan Matei wrote:
> Hi, dear Vladimir
>
> Here is what I replyed to Martin (or you see the list ?):
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Well, crm:E78_Collection attracts so much attention either because it 
> is important or it has problems, or both :-)
>
> (Second thought: we can say that the guy burying a hoard had a 
> "collection development plan": he planed to "develop", the hoard, 
> retrieving it after some time and spending the coins :-)
>
> True that crm:E19_Physical_Object "includes all aggregates of 
> objects", but I feel the need of something like crm:Fx_Assemblage 
> between crm:E19_Physical_Object and E78_Collection, because I would 
> like to make a clear (conceptual) distinction between:
>
> <helmet>  <crm:Py_is_component_of> <armor>
>
> or
>
> <coin> < crm:Py_is_component_of > <hoard>
>
> and
>
> <wheel>  <crm:P46i_forms_part_of> <car>
>
> So, I would like a crm:Fx_Assemblage exactly for the reason you 
> invoke: "We should only use a more specific class, if we expect the 
> respective additional  properties to be relevant for querying.".
>
> -------------------------------------
>
>
> I'm still in doubt...
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig


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