[Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons

Christian-Emil Smith Ore c.e.s.ore at iln.uio.no
Tue Aug 5 09:54:37 EEST 2014


Dear Detlev,
The agrelon demonstrates clearly that there is a lot of possible relations. It could be interesting to see the set of relations if one tried to model the traditional peasant family in Russia. Traditionally there is a very large numbers of terms for describing the relations in the extended family. 

C-E

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Detlev
>Balzer
>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:11 AM
>To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
>
>Dear Christian-Emil,
>
>by the way, a more modest approach to prosopography (compared to
>snapdrgn) has been taken here:
>
>http://d-nb.info/standards/elementset/agrelon.owl
>
>Unfortunately, this hasn't yet made it beyond the proposal stage. It may,
>however, serve as an example of what kinds of relationships are considered
>important in the library sector.
>
>Best regards,
>Detlev
>
>Am 04.08.2014 um 16:32 schrieb Christian-Emil Smith Ore:
>> Snapdrgn and the associated projects for prosopographical information
>(prosopographies) can be a case study and serve as a source of
>information/evidence. It is only a 2-3 years project. However, it can be a task
>to see how to map  the snapdrgn ontology (which is expressed in rdf(s) I
>believe) to CRM. If we cannot do that, CRM needs adjustment or
>amendments. I will try to make the mapping and study the matter further.
>> C-E
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of
>>> martin
>>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 3:31 PM
>>> To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
>>>
>>> Dear Christian-Emil,
>>>
>>> I could quite well imagine having a sort of more general Group
>>> describing a social bond that would not involve members potentially
>>> "acting as one" or one speaking for them.
>>> In that case, that Group would no more be "one Actor".
>>>
>>> Would you regard http://snapdrgn.net/ as a good practical scope? Do
>>> you have other sources to map from?
>>>
>>> If we have a practical scope, we can model things.
>>> Do you propose an amendment to the CRM or a "social" extension?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/8/2014 2:38 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> This is not a part of  the discussion in April about groups and
>>>> aggregations. It is groups as a way to model relations between
>>>> persons
>>> (actors).  I gave a presentation about CRM and prosopography at the
>>> DH2014 workshop "Ontologies for prosopography" (see
>>> http://edd.uio.no/artiklar/DH2014/C-E_Ore_prosopography.pdf ).
>>>>
>>>> The current CRM way to model relations between persons is to use the
>>>> E74
>>> Group. A relation is modeled as  an instance of E74 Group and the
>>> type of relation is expressed via P2 has Type. In a non-symmetric
>>> relation each person is linked via 'P107 is current or former member
>>> of '  specified by 'P107.1 kind of member'. This is all according to the scope
>note in CRM.
>>>>
>>>> One may note that an instance of E74 Group used in this way
>>>> represents an
>>> instance, an n-tuple,  of a relation (seen as a set of n-tuples as in
>>> mathematics or in relational databases). The relation is identified
>>> by the type of the E74 group.
>>>>
>>>> I was a little skeptical when this way of modeling relations where
>>>> introduced
>>> in CRM. My first thought was to define explicit, typed properties.
>>> After studying how for example the SNAP (Standards for Networking
>>> Ancient Prosopographies, http://snapdrgn.net/) tries to cope with
>>> their at least 65 identified relations between persons by introducing
>>> a relation class in RDFS, I realized that the CRM solution is very good.
>>>>
>>>> Since this is not meant to be a statement about me and CRM, I will
>>>> raise two
>>> issues which I think need some discussion.
>>>>
>>>> 1) E74 Group scope note "This class comprises any gatherings or
>>> organizations of two or more people that act collectively or in a
>>> similar way due to any form of unifying relationship.[...]"  Will all
>>> related persons fulfill the requirement " act collectively or in a
>>> similar way due to any form of unifying relationship", that is, is
>>> E74 Group too narrow to be used to model all kind of relations between
>persons like the ones we find in prosopography?
>>>>
>>>> 2) The modeling of relations by 'P107 is current or former member of '
>>> specified by 'P107.1 kind of member': If this is to be implemented in
>>> RDF(S), should we in the CRM definition recommend or at list hint to
>>> a good solution to implement the .1 E55 Type properties?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Christian-Emil
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
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>--
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