[Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons

Detlev Balzer db at balilabs.de
Tue Aug 5 09:11:03 EEST 2014


Dear Christian-Emil,

by the way, a more modest approach to prosopography (compared to snapdrgn) has been taken here:

http://d-nb.info/standards/elementset/agrelon.owl
 
Unfortunately, this hasn't yet made it beyond the proposal stage. It may, however, serve as an example of what kinds of relationships are considered important in the library sector.

Best regards,
Detlev

Am 04.08.2014 um 16:32 schrieb Christian-Emil Smith Ore:
> Snapdrgn and the associated projects for prosopographical information (prosopographies) can be a case study and serve as a source of information/evidence. It is only a 2-3 years project. However, it can be a task to see how to map  the snapdrgn ontology (which is expressed in rdf(s) I believe) to CRM. If we cannot do that, CRM needs adjustment or amendments. I will try to make the mapping and study the matter further.
> C-E
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of martin
>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 3:31 PM
>> To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] groups and relations between persons
>>
>> Dear Christian-Emil,
>>
>> I could quite well imagine having a sort of more general Group describing a
>> social bond that would not involve members potentially "acting as one" or one
>> speaking for them.
>> In that case, that Group would no more be "one Actor".
>>
>> Would you regard http://snapdrgn.net/ as a good practical scope? Do you
>> have other sources to map from?
>>
>> If we have a practical scope, we can model things.
>> Do you propose an amendment to the CRM or a "social" extension?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 4/8/2014 2:38 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> This is not a part of  the discussion in April about groups and
>>> aggregations. It is groups as a way to model relations between persons
>> (actors).  I gave a presentation about CRM and prosopography at the DH2014
>> workshop "Ontologies for prosopography" (see
>> http://edd.uio.no/artiklar/DH2014/C-E_Ore_prosopography.pdf ).
>>>
>>> The current CRM way to model relations between persons is to use the E74
>> Group. A relation is modeled as  an instance of E74 Group and the type of
>> relation is expressed via P2 has Type. In a non-symmetric relation each person
>> is linked via 'P107 is current or former member of '  specified by 'P107.1 kind of
>> member'. This is all according to the scope note in CRM.
>>>
>>> One may note that an instance of E74 Group used in this way represents an
>> instance, an n-tuple,  of a relation (seen as a set of n-tuples as in mathematics
>> or in relational databases). The relation is identified by the type of the E74
>> group.
>>>
>>> I was a little skeptical when this way of modeling relations where introduced
>> in CRM. My first thought was to define explicit, typed properties. After
>> studying how for example the SNAP (Standards for Networking Ancient
>> Prosopographies, http://snapdrgn.net/) tries to cope with their at least 65
>> identified relations between persons by introducing a relation class in RDFS, I
>> realized that the CRM solution is very good.
>>>
>>> Since this is not meant to be a statement about me and CRM, I will raise two
>> issues which I think need some discussion.
>>>
>>> 1) E74 Group scope note "This class comprises any gatherings or
>> organizations of two or more people that act collectively or in a similar way
>> due to any form of unifying relationship.[...]"  Will all related persons fulfill the
>> requirement " act collectively or in a similar way due to any form of unifying
>> relationship", that is, is E74 Group too narrow to be used to model all kind of
>> relations between persons like the ones we find in prosopography?
>>>
>>> 2) The modeling of relations by 'P107 is current or former member of '
>> specified by 'P107.1 kind of member': If this is to be implemented in RDF(S),
>> should we in the CRM definition recommend or at list hint to  a good solution
>> to implement the .1 E55 Type properties?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Christian-Emil
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
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Detlev Balzer, Mecklenburger Landstr. 5, D-23570 Lübeck
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