[Crm-sig] QUESTION on CRMgeo and earlier proposal

Vladimir Alexiev vladimir.alexiev at ontotext.com
Tue Apr 22 18:42:43 EEST 2014

Hi everyone!
I’ve been digging through CRMgeo as one potential representation for Getty TGN.

I'm working with these docs:
- http://www.cidoc-crm.org/docs/Technical%20Report435-CRMgeo.pdf 
- http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl/CRMext/CRMgeo/docs/CRMgeo.pptx 
- http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl/CRMext/CRMgeo_v1.0.owl 

I attach a cleaned Turtle that's easier to read (for people who rarely use Protégé). In particular, I've corrected the prefixes.
I also attach the two key diagrams from the presentation (excellent!)
In particular, look at CRMgeo-GeoSPARQL Integration.PNG 

1. It would be good to define domain & range for all properties (e.g. Q7i doesn't have them).
owl:inverseOf does not automatically make any assertion about range & domain from those of the forward property.

2. The spec quotes GML time expressions, but geo:Geometry is grafted under crmgeo:SP5_Geometric_Place_Expression, with no relation to Time Expression.
I don't have experience with GML time expressions, TGN doesn't need them, and I plan to use WKT only...
But is this intentional?

3. If 2 is intentional, I would expect crmgeo:Q10i_place_is_defined_by to be related to geo:hasGeometry ?
But there's no path between them, without going through entities with more info (Period or Physical Thing)

4. crmgeo:SP5_Geometric_Place_Expression is subclass of crm:E47_Spatial_Coordinates, which has direct link to Place (crm:P87i_identifies).
Is it ok/permissible to use this link, should it be considered a shortcut of Q10+something?

5. The deeper question is that Place (just like Time-Span) is not considered geo:Feature.
Looking at the other slide, geo:Feature is equated to "real-world phenomenon", whereas Place is not considered such, in line with Issue 201 "there is no more substance to a place than the area".
This is not intuitive to me, since many other ontologies consider Places to be Features (e.g. GeoNames, LOCN)
Do I understand this right?

6. Could you please comment on the representation below:

tgn:3000034-place a crm:E53_Place, crmgeo:SP6_Declarative_Place;
  crm:P87_is_identified_by tgn_term:1234-en;
  crmgeo:Q10i_place_is_defined_by tgn:3000034-point, tgn:3000034-box;
  crm:P3_has_note "Refers to the area around the Great Lakes, which..."@en;
  crm:P2_has_type aat:1234; # "general region"
  crm:P89_falls_within tgn:1000001-place. # "North and Central America"

tgn_term:1234-en a xl:Label, crm:E48_Place_Name;
  xl:literalForm "Great Lakes Region"@en;
  crm:P3_has_note "Great Lakes Region"@en;
  # sources, contributors, etc.

tgn:3000034-point a crmgeo:SP5_Geometric_Place_Expression, sf:Point;
  wgs:lat "45.0000"; wgs:long "-85.0000"; wgs:alt "183.1840";
  geo:asWKT "Point(-85.0000 45.0000)"^^geo:WKTLiteral.

tgn:3000034-box a crmgeo:SP5_Geometric_Place_Expression, sf:Polygon;
  geo:asWKT "Polygon((-92.0160 43.1560, -92.0160 48.8120, -82.4910 48.8120, -82.4910 43.1560, -92.0160 43.1560))"^^geo:WKTLiteral.

7. The previous proposal on which CRMgeo builds upon is at:

It refers to ontology file GeoSPARQL_4_CRMv2.owl
Could one of the authors (Gerald Hiebel, Øyvind Eide, Mark Fichtner,  Klaus Hanke, Georg Hohmann, Siegfried Krause) please send it?

Thanks a lot for your help!

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