[Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Thu Mar 8 20:54:22 EET 2012


Well, sure, agreed, the interest typically drops when future events
become abandoned plans.
This is why I suggested to get a mapping of
possible applications to the CRM and then see what's missing.
So, all members of this list are kindly invited to make mappings
of planned events from their applications and let us know, if there
is more precise information that users would like to query but cannot
with current CRM.

cheers,

martin

On 8/3/2012 7:53 μμ, Stephen Stead wrote:
> It is an interesting use case but I have never seen anyone using it. Will
> we really see people run the query "Give me all the expeditions/plays that
> were due to run in 1872". It is an interesting prospect but I doubt if we
> have any data as yet. Still build a better mouse-trap......
> I am game for some modelling in this area!
> Rgds
> SdS
> 
> Stephen Stead
> Tel +44 20 8668 3075
> Mob +44 7802 755 013
> E-mail steads at paveprime.com
> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: martin [mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr]
> Sent: 08 March 2012 15:03
> To: steads at paveprime.com
> Cc: Stephen Stead; PATRICK.LE-BOEUF at bnf.fr; crm-sig at ics.forth.gr; crm-sig-
> bounces at ics.forth.gr
> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> Your analysis is perfect as ever. The question was more, if we should
> create a specialization of the CRM, which would model explicitly the
> temporal properties and entities associated with plans and planning.
> "Abandonment" would then be an explicit class. CRM so far does not allow to
> query, for instance, for how long a plan was pursued, and at which date it
> was planned to be realized.
> 
> So, the CRM covers the facts but does not provide all details someone may
> be interested in. Therefore, an application being built to query such
> things in cultural-historical documentation would be nice to see.
> If yes, CRM-SIG may recommend an extension to the CRM.
> 
> Would you agree?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 7/3/2012 7:36 μμ, Stephen Stead wrote:
>> I am obviously missing something in this discussion. The documentation
>> we have of a planned but not executed event is the documentation of,
>> and produced by the planning process. If the plan is executed then we
>> have an event/activity (depending on scale) following a plan (E29). If
>> the event has not yet taken place but still might we have a plan with
>> no instance of its use. If the plan is abandoned then we have an
>> activity of E55 Type: Abandonment using the plan (E29). If it is
>> modified then we have another E29 showing features of the original E29.
>>
>> If I build a 3D model based on the drawings of a building that was
>> never built the I have an E31 that documents an E29 but the E29 was
>> never used in an E7 Activity.
>>
>> So what am I missing?
>>
>> Yours in puzzlement
>>
>> SdS
>>
>> Stephen Stead
>>
>> Tel +44 20 8668 3075
>>
>> Mob +44 7802 755 013
>>
>> E-mail steads at paveprime.com<mailto:steads at paveprime.com>
>>
>> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
>>
>> *From:*crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr
>> [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] *On Behalf Of
>> *PATRICK.LE-BOEUF at bnf.fr
>> *Sent:* 06 March 2012 15:09
>> *To:* martin at ics.forth.gr
>> *Cc:* crm-sig at ics.forth.gr; crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr
>> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I can't speak for the museum community, but to return to my familiar
>> obsessions, there are in libraries many examples of drawings,
>> sketchbooks, etc. that document planned theatrical performances that
>> eventually never took place. For instance, there are documents about
>> Edward Gordon Craig's project for a mise-en-scene of Bach's Matthew
>> Passion both at the BnF<
>> http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ead.html?id=FRBNFEAD000004234&c=FRB
>> NFEAD000004234_a181>  and at the University of California Los Angeles
>> <
>> <http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ead.html?id=FRBNFEAD000004234&c=FR
>> BNFEAD000004234_a181>http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt7f5
>> 9p0kd/dsc/?query=matthew;dsc.position=1#hitNum1
>>   >, and researchers would certainly benefit from information
>> integration.
>> <http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt7f59p0kd/dsc/?query=mat
>> thew;dsc.position=1#hitNum1>
>> Best wishes,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>> Message de : *martin<martin at ics.forth.gr>*
>> 06/03/2012 14:08
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>> Envoye par :
>> *crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr*
>>
>> Pour
>>
>> 	
>>
>> crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>
>> Copie
>>
>> 	
>>
>> Objet
>>
>> 	
>>
>> Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Oeyvind,
>>
>> This is a use case, we have implemented at FORTH a logic with 3
>> time-spans as indicated below for the Germanische Nationalmuseum, but
>> I am not sure to which degree there is an information integration need
>> in the community at that level. I'd like to have a real user stand up
>> and say: These are my data...there is a benefit is standardizing the
>> interpretation...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 6/3/2012 2:51 μμ, Øyvind Eide wrote:
>>>   Dear Joao and Martin,
>>>
>>>   I assume planned travel would be a use case, e.g., if a museum plans
>> an expedition with a more or less specified route; then either the
>> whole expeditions is cancelled, or the route is changed (as Amundsen's
>> decision to go to the South Pole instead of the other one). I have no
>> use cases connected to museum documentation, however; so it may be
>> that it is just a theoretical possibility.
>>>
>>>
>>>   Kind regards,
>>>
>>>   Øyvind Eide
>>>   Department of Digital Humanities, King's College London  Unit for
>>> Digital Documentation, University of Oslo
>>>
>>>   Den 6. mars 2012 kl. 13:36 skrev martin:
>>>
>>>> Dear Joao,
>>>>
>>>> No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an
>>>> existing
>> practice of documenting planned events and their
>>>> realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not
>> take place or is significantly different from what was planned.
>>>> Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen
>>>> a
>> raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large
>> building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling
>> allows to visualize such plans.
>>>>
>>>> One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change
>> classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition
>> between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics.
>> However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but
>> not yet ended.
>>>>
>>>> Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as
>>>> properties
>> of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times:
>>>> The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the
>> time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized,
>>>> which may change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to
>> be realized or not. I suspect that a sort of
>>>> "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information
>>>> objects")
>> might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an
>>>> event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> On 28/2/2012 4:47 μμ, Joao Oliveira Lima wrote:
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> In the message [
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html
>> ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned
>> events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>>>
>> <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.htm
>> l>http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Research Director |
>>>> Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
>>>> | Email:
>>>> martin at ics.forth.gr
>>>> |
>>>> |
>>>> Center for Cultural Informatics |
>>>> Information Systems Laboratory |
>>>> Institute of Computer Science |
>>>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
>>>> |
>>>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
>>>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>>>> |
>>>> Web-site:
>>>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>>> |
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   Crm-sig mailing list
>>>   Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>   http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Research Director |
>> Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
>> | Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>> |
>> Center for Cultural Informatics |
>> Information Systems Laboratory |
>> Institute of Computer Science |
>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
>> |
>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>> |
>> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinf
>> o/crm-sig
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>> Exposition /*Miniatures flamandes
>> <http://www.bnf.fr/fr/evenements_et_culture/anx_expositions/f.miniatur
>> es_flamandes_bnf.html>*/
>> - jusqu'au 10 juin 2012 - BnF - Francois-Mitterrand
>>
>> *Avant d'imprimer, pensez a l'environnement.*
>>
>> =
>>
> 
> 


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
 Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
 Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                               |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                             |
               Center for Cultural Informatics               |
               Information Systems Laboratory                |
                Institute of Computer Science                |
   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                             |
               N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                             |
             Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------



More information about the Crm-sig mailing list