[Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events

Michael Hopwood michael at editeur.org
Wed Mar 7 14:38:04 EET 2012


Hi Martin et al.,

I have a use case for planned (future) events, based on my work with Linked Heritage (www.linkedheritage.eu) and the LIDO schema (see http://network.icom.museum/cidoc/working-groups/data-harvesting-and-interchange.html).

I want to model sales of commercial products (which could certainly be within the context of a museum's shop or online webshop) and as far as I can see, LIDO has only the "event" structure to enable this.

The event would have to be "prospective", rather than "planned", because it's not possible to know in advance how many (if any) sales you will make - however, it could have an earliest date given by the announcement that the product is for sale...

The place elements would be useful for mapping territorial sales rights in the cases of many types of media. I would be interested to see how the price could be modelled - I guess as a measurement?

Do museums or other cultural institutes issue (e.g. commemorative) limited edition replicas/books/art works of some sort? In that case that might well exist some concrete examples of past sales to model this way.

Best wishes,

Michael

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:36:43 +0200
From: martin <martin at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Message-ID: <4F5604DB.4060107 at ics.forth.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Joao,

No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an existing practice of documenting planned events and their realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not take place or is significantly different from what was planned.
Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen a raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling allows to visualize such plans.

One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics.
However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but not yet ended.

Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as properties of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times:
The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized, which may change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to be realized or not. I suspect that a sort of "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information objects") might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality.

Best,

Martin

On 28/2/2012 4:47 ??, Jo?o Oliveira Lima wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>    In the message [
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html
> ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned
> events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction?
>
> Regards,
>
> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                              |
              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------


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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 13:51:24 +0100
From: ?yvind Eide <oyvind.eide at iln.uio.no>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
To: crm-sig <crm-sig at ics.forth.gr>
Message-ID: <0CB28565-381A-40F3-A8A2-129061691C6D at iln.uio.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Dear Joao and Martin,

I assume planned travel would be a use case, e.g., if a museum plans an expedition with a more or less specified route; then either the whole expeditions is cancelled, or the route is changed (as Amundsen's decision to go to the South Pole instead of the other one). I have no use cases connected to museum documentation, however; so it may be that it is just a theoretical possibility.


Kind regards,

?yvind Eide
Department of Digital Humanities, King's College London Unit for Digital Documentation, University of Oslo

Den 6. mars 2012 kl. 13:36 skrev martin:

> Dear Joao,
>
> No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an existing
> practice of documenting planned events and their realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not take place or is significantly different from what was planned.
> Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen a raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling allows to visualize such plans.
>
> One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics. However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but not yet ended.
>
> Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as properties of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times:
> The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the
> time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized, which may
> change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to be realized
> or not. I suspect that a sort of "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information objects") might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality.
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
> On 28/2/2012 4:47 ??, Jo?o Oliveira Lima wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>>    In the message [ http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                |  Email:
> martin at ics.forth.gr
>  |
>                                                              |
>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                              |
>                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>                                                              |
>              Web-site:
> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>            |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig






------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:08:21 +0200
From: martin <martin at ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Message-ID: <4F560C45.2000605 at ics.forth.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Dear Oeyvind,

This is a use case, we have implemented at FORTH a logic with 3 time-spans as indicated below for the Germanische Nationalmuseum, but I am not sure to which degree there is an information integration need in the community at that level. I'd like to have a real user stand up and say: These are my data...there is a benefit is standardizing the interpretation...

Cheers,

Martin


On 6/3/2012 2:51 ??, ?yvind Eide wrote:
> Dear Joao and Martin,
>
> I assume planned travel would be a use case, e.g., if a museum plans an expedition with a more or less specified route; then either the whole expeditions is cancelled, or the route is changed (as Amundsen's decision to go to the South Pole instead of the other one). I have no use cases connected to museum documentation, however; so it may be that it is just a theoretical possibility.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> ?yvind Eide
> Department of Digital Humanities, King's College London Unit for
> Digital Documentation, University of Oslo
>
> Den 6. mars 2012 kl. 13:36 skrev martin:
>
>> Dear Joao,
>>
>> No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an existing
>> practice of documenting planned events and their realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not take place or is significantly different from what was planned.
>> Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen a raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling allows to visualize such plans.
>>
>> One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics. However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but not yet ended.
>>
>> Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as properties of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times:
>> The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the
>> time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized, which may
>> change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to be realized
>> or not. I suspect that a sort of "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information objects") might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 28/2/2012 4:47 ??, Jo?o Oliveira Lima wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>     In the message [ http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                 |  Email:
>> martin at ics.forth.gr
>>   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>>                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>>                                                               |
>>               Web-site:
>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>             |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                              |
              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:08:44 +0100
From: PATRICK.LE-BOEUF at bnf.fr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events
To: martin at ics.forth.gr
Cc: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr, crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr
Message-ID:
        <OFA26AFE90.F8831C75-ONC12579B9.005128E9-C12579B9.00533278 at LocalDomain>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-kr"

Dear all,
I can't speak for the museum community, but to return to my familiar obsessions, there are in libraries many examples of drawings, sketchbooks, etc. that document planned theatrical performances that eventually never took place. For instance, there are documents about Edward Gordon Craig's project for a mise-en-scene of Bach's Matthew Passion both at the BnF <
http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ead.html?id=FRBNFEAD000004234&c=FRBNFEAD000004234_a181
> and at the University of California Los Angeles <
http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt7f59p0kd/dsc/?query=matthew;dsc.position=1#hitNum1
>,  and researchers would certainly benefit from information integration.
Best wishes,
Patrick







Message de : martin <martin at ics.forth.gr>
                      06/03/2012 14:08

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Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events



Dear Oeyvind,

This is a use case, we have implemented at FORTH a logic with 3 time-spans as indicated below for the Germanische Nationalmuseum, but I am not sure to which degree there is an information integration need in the community at that level. I'd like to have a real user stand up and say: These are my data...there is a benefit is standardizing the interpretation...

Cheers,

Martin


On 6/3/2012 2:51 ??, ?yvind Eide wrote:
> Dear Joao and Martin,
>
> I assume planned travel would be a use case, e.g., if a museum plans
> an
expedition with a more or less specified route; then either the whole expeditions is cancelled, or the route is changed (as Amundsen's decision to go to the South Pole instead of the other one). I have no use cases connected to museum documentation, however; so it may be that it is just a theoretical possibility.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> ?yvind Eide
> Department of Digital Humanities, King's College London Unit for
> Digital Documentation, University of Oslo
>
> Den 6. mars 2012 kl. 13:36 skrev martin:
>
>> Dear Joao,
>>
>> No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an existing
practice of documenting planned events and their
>> realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not
>> take
place or is significantly different from what was planned.
>> Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen a
raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling allows to visualize such plans.
>>
>> One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change
classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics.
However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but not yet ended.
>>
>> Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as properties
of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times:
>> The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the
time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized,
>> which may change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to
>> be
realized or not. I suspect that a sort of
>> "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information objects")
might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an
>> event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 28/2/2012 4:47 ??, Joao Oliveira Lima wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>     In the message [
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Crm-sig mailing list
>>>
>>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                 |  Email:
>> martin at ics.forth.gr
>>   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>                                                               |
>>                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>>                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>>                                                               |
>>               Web-site:
>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>             |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
                N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
                 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
                                                              |
              Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
--------------------------------------------------------------

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