[Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

Matthew Stiff matthew at matthewstiff.com
Mon Jul 9 18:05:56 EEST 2012


Interesting one, this. 

Truth is, if you look at SPECTRUM 4.0 this is a widely used standard (and I am not defending it!) that seems to model it in the way that Vladimir describes. Taking the example of a blue plaque commemorating, say, a battle, SPECTRUM would record the battle using any of the following:
	
	1.  Associated Event Name (and Associated Event Name Type)
	2. Associated Activity
	3.Associated Event Date
	4. Associated Event Organisation
	5. Associated Event People
	6. Associated Event Person
	7. Associated Event Place
	8. Association Type

The last of these would seem to cover "commemorates". Key thing is that this is part of the Object History and Association Information Group and is clearly linked to the physical item of documentation rather than any conceptual object associated with it. In the case of a Blue Plaque this actually makes sense since the decision to have an object commemorating an event or person arises before a decision is made as to what the plaque is actually going to say.

The information groups in SPECTRUM do not seem to have been radically changed since version 2.0 which I think is a shame - The groupings are not very robust - but we do seem to have an example in practice that supports what Vladimir is saying. I would not be surprised if this is actually implemented in commercial collections management software. 

I should stop this - I really should be writing an essay! :-)

Best wishes, 

Matthew	

Dr Matthew Stiff
19 Riverside Road
Oxford
OX2 0HT

(t)       +44 (0)1865 425982
(m)     +44 (0)7939 151510


-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Stephen Stead
Sent: 09 July 2012 15:41
To: 'Vladimir Alexiev'; 'crm-sig'
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

But the object does not "refer to" the scriptwriter. In fact the link to the
script writer is purely in the documentation of the object. This is the same
as rendering a person as a scriptwriter or architect. They were not born as
scriptwriters or archtitects it was a role they played in particular
event(s). 

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075 
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail steads at paveprime.com
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads


-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On
Behalf Of Vladimir Alexiev
Sent: 09 July 2012 15:25
To: 'crm-sig'
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

> I think the simple answer is we saw P62 used in actual data models.
> We have not seen the others and so had no justification for creating them.

Are the examples provided sufficient justification?

> The example of the drawing of an actress having further details in 
> unstructured data would need to have a series of intermediary nodes 
> introduced to complete the path to the script writer from the drawing...
> FRBRoo events (for instance the F27 Work Conception...

The structured BM data (table Associated Person) says the physical object is
somehow related to the script writer (who comes from a thesaurus). We cannot
create a precise path involving FRBRoo because the relation is explaned in a
mere note.

> There is no conceivable shortcut that could provide a link directly.

Sure there is: P67a_refers_to that's just like P67 but has physical domain.
We're currently doing:

<obj> P62_depicts <thes/people/Some-Actress>;
   P128_carries <obj/concept>.
<obj/concept> P67_refers_to <thes/people/Some-Script-Writer>.

We'd like to get rid of the parasitic (empty) node <obj/concept> and just do
this:

<obj> P62_depicts <thes/people/Some-Actress>;
  P67a_refers_to <thes/people/Some-Script-Writer>.

_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig





More information about the Crm-sig mailing list