[Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

Stephen Stead steads at paveprime.com
Thu Jul 5 20:11:16 EEST 2012


That is clearly a conceptual object being carried by the physical object
Rgds
SdS

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075 
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail steads at paveprime.com
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Stiff [mailto:matthew at matthewstiff.com] 
Sent: 05 July 2012 18:09
To: Stephen Stead; 'Vladimir Alexiev'; crm-sig
Subject: RE: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

For example, a gravestone carrying an epitaph....

Matthew

Dr Matthew Stiff
19 Riverside Road
Oxford
OX2 0HT

(t)       +44 (0)1865 425982
(m)     +44 (0)7939 151510

-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On
Behalf Of Stephen Stead
Sent: 05 July 2012 11:00
To: 'Vladimir Alexiev'; crm-sig
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

Vladimir
Just trying to understand the problem a little more. Could you give a couple
of examples of the physical object being about a person or event where the
"aboutness" is not a depiction? 
Without specific examples my suspicion is that there is a conceptual object
that is "about" something and that is being carried by the physical object
but I want to be sure that this covers the cases that you are seeing.
Rgds
SdS

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail steads at paveprime.com
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads

-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On
Behalf Of Vladimir Alexiev
Sent: 05 July 2012 08:55
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Cc: 'Joshan Mahmud'
Subject: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

 There's a variety of "aboutness" properties of Conceptual objects, a total
of 5.
They are subproperties of P67,
and in particular 2 more specific sub-properties are used often: P129, P138.

In contrast, there's only 1 "aboutness" property of Physical objects: P62.
It is a shortcut of P138 through E36_Visual_Item.

So looking at the property hierarchy
http://personal.sirma.bg/vladimir/crm/entity_list_cleaned.html#property-hier
archy
(scroll 2p down)
and putting the Conceptual and Physical (domain) side by side, we see these
gaps, denoted ???:

Conceptual         Physical
P67_refers_to      ???
- P129_is_about    ???
- P138_represents  P62_depicts

In the BM database there are many instances where a physical object refers
to something (person, event) or is about something, but the nature of this
reference is not visual. 
In such cases we'd like to use physical analogs of P67,P129 but currently we
need to create a "parasitic" conceptual node so as to satisfy the Domain
restriction.

(Or let the physical object also be a conceptual object, with a P128_carries
self-loop, a practice I've been criticised for).

So I think it would be useful to create a parent and sibling of P62, that
can serve as shortcuts of P67 and P129 respectively.

Cheers! Vladimir

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