[Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

Matthew Stiff matthew at matthewstiff.com
Thu Jul 5 20:09:01 EEST 2012


For example, a gravestone carrying an epitaph....

Matthew

Dr Matthew Stiff
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-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Stephen Stead
Sent: 05 July 2012 11:00
To: 'Vladimir Alexiev'; crm-sig
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

Vladimir
Just trying to understand the problem a little more. Could you give a couple of examples of the physical object being about a person or event where the "aboutness" is not a depiction? 
Without specific examples my suspicion is that there is a conceptual object that is "about" something and that is being carried by the physical object but I want to be sure that this covers the cases that you are seeing.
Rgds
SdS

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075
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-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Vladimir Alexiev
Sent: 05 July 2012 08:55
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Cc: 'Joshan Mahmud'
Subject: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P62 needs a parent and a sibling

 There's a variety of "aboutness" properties of Conceptual objects, a total of 5.
They are subproperties of P67,
and in particular 2 more specific sub-properties are used often: P129, P138.

In contrast, there's only 1 "aboutness" property of Physical objects: P62.
It is a shortcut of P138 through E36_Visual_Item.

So looking at the property hierarchy
http://personal.sirma.bg/vladimir/crm/entity_list_cleaned.html#property-hier
archy
(scroll 2p down)
and putting the Conceptual and Physical (domain) side by side, we see these gaps, denoted ???:

Conceptual         Physical
P67_refers_to      ???
- P129_is_about    ???
- P138_represents  P62_depicts

In the BM database there are many instances where a physical object refers to something (person, event) or is about something, but the nature of this reference is not visual. 
In such cases we'd like to use physical analogs of P67,P129 but currently we need to create a "parasitic" conceptual node so as to satisfy the Domain restriction.

(Or let the physical object also be a conceptual object, with a P128_carries self-loop, a practice I've been criticised for).

So I think it would be useful to create a parent and sibling of P62, that can serve as shortcuts of P67 and P129 respectively.

Cheers! Vladimir

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