[Crm-sig] LIDO semantics - "Inscriptions" on/in mass-produced media

Stephen Stead steads at paveprime.org
Wed Apr 11 07:45:03 EEST 2012

The FRBR F3 Manifestation Product Type properties labelled CLP and CLR are
generally “should haves”. That is instances of the class described by an
instance F3 (ie an instance of F5 Item) should have 173 pages etc. Any
particular F5 Item may of course have a different number of pages due to an
error in the production process or some E7 Activity later in its history.

Hope this helps



Stephen Stead

Tel +44 20 8668 3075 

Mob +44 7802 755 013

E-mail  <mailto:steads at paveprime.com> steads at paveprime.com

LinkedIn Profile  <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads>


From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On
Behalf Of Michael Hopwood
Sent: 10 April 2012 12:32
To: Regine Stein
Cc: erin.coburn at metmuseum.org; crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] LIDO semantics - "Inscriptions" on/in mass-produced


Thanks Regine – I appreciate this!


I’m always slightly put off by the distinction “physical vs. digital”
(having studied physics and being pretty convinced that digital systems are
also physical


I think your solution works perfectly within the specifications but I still
have one question:


Early on we made a compromise in the modelling process (I think) by stating
that all the products we are modelling are FRBRoo “Manifestation Product
Types” –essentially designs of a *set* of identical, mass-produced items
(the “manifestation”).


Now, commercially published books, say, don’t usually have item-level IDs
(although apparently in Turkey they do!!!!) and you don’t normally know at
any point where all the copies are, or even really how many there are
exactly once printed and sold, delivered etc.


So the “manifestation” is, correctly, a CRM “conceptual object” in this
sense – so how can it even have dimensions, etc. etc.? I think we have mixed
models here and mapped product descriptions as though the specific item is
at hand.


It doesn’t bother me too much, and I think it’s slightly irrelevant  to
“inscriptions and physical objects” but I just wanted to point out we’re not
discussing a physical object at this stage..?!


Anyhow, can you point me to any sources that have mapped data about books,
films/TV, music & photos that include “content” descriptions? It would be
great to see how others have done this in LIDO.




From: Regine Stein [mailto:r.stein at fotomarburg.de] 
Sent: 05 April 2012 21:19
To: Michael Hopwood
Cc: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr; erin.coburn at metmuseum.org
Subject: Re: LIDO semantics - "Inscriptions" on/in mass-produced media


Hi Michael, 

Trying a quick answer for a late Thursday-Friday. 

An inscription is clearly bound to a physical carrier, as the LIDO spec
states by talking of "[...] physical lettering [...] that are affixed [...],
incscribed, or attached to the object / work", in compliance with E34
Inscription in the CRM. 

As you start "I want to include descriptions..." - all the information you
address here goes imo into lido:objectDescriptionSet, being typed according
to your needs with lido:type attribute. 


Am 30.03.2012 14:23, schrieb Michael Hopwood: 

Hello all,


A quick question on the LIDO semantics for a Friday.


I want to include descriptions or possibly even transcriptions of part of
the text of published books,  lyrics of recorded music, audio dialogue of
film&TV assets, possibly words appearing in photo images


Can this be included within LIDO:Inscriptions? Spec says:


“A transcription or description of any distinguishing or identifying

physical lettering, annotations, texts, markings, or labels that are

affixed, applied, stamped, written, inscribed, or attached to the

object / work, excluding any mark or text inherent in the materials

of which it is made.”


The object/work in this case is actually a FRBRoo Manifestation Product
Type, so in what sense does it have “Inscriptions”?




Michael Hopwood

Linked Heritage Project Lead


United House, North  Road

London N7 9DP



Tel: +44 20 7503 6418

Mob: +44 7811 591036

Skype: michael.hopwood.editeur




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Regine Stein, Dipl.-Math.
Head of Information Technology
German Documentation Center for Art History
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