[Crm-sig] ISSUE: "P43 has dimension" should apply to E1 Entity, not E70 Thing

Stephen Stead steads at paveprime.org
Thu Nov 24 23:21:42 EET 2011

I will try and answer you points 1 by 1 but there is a big proviso for all
these hypothetical cases: Where in current museums documentation practice is
this done? If it is not being done then it is out of scope for the CRM!
Imagine this situation: "A cow and some chicken were sold for $5000".
1]- What if I don't know the complete set of objects that was sold? (I can
identify the cow, but don't even know the number of chicken) [It is a
multi-part object NOT a collection as it has no curation plan]
2]- What if I don't know the split of the price amongst the objects? [It is
the price of the multi-part object]
3]- Do I need to make a collection of these objects, only so I can say the
price? [It is NOT a collection see above]
4] Then why is "P24 transferred title of" multi-valued? [Because one
Transfer may Transfer the title of many objects or even many multi-part
5] What if you don't know the people's identities? [Then you create Actors
to whom you attach no appellation though you may be able to derive this from
another data source]
6] What if you don't even know the exact number? E.g. "approximately 5000
people were evacuated as a result of a dangerous goods incident" [Then they
are a Group where you do not know the exact number of members]
7] There are projects that produce nothing (failed ones). [Then the cost is
to produce an immaterial object]
8] And the correlation between the effort/cost spent on something and its
"true cost" is not straightforward. [The CRM is not intended to make life
easy just model our documentation of it!!]
9] That's the point of Earned Value Management: to be able to track planned
[Estimated Cost of the immaterial or a different measurement of the cost of
the Thing as needed] vs actual [Cost of the Thing] vs earned cost [Another
type of cost of the thing] .
10] So a Risk would be maybe E90 Symbolic Object that, if materialized,
begets a Risk that is E5 Event? [More likely a Propositional Object]
11] You have a point here... Though maybe CRM should also be able to model
*hypothetical* events. [Out of Scope but one of many possible extensions
that has been discussed in the SIG]
12] But still: upon materialization, the conceptual risk's Impact will
become the risk event's Loss.
How do you model this Loss without going into details on what exactly was
lost (and I may not want to go to such details) [Not sure I understand what
you mean here but I think this would be the Value of the Thing lost even if
you do not detail what it comprises off ie it could be the loss of an
immaterial thing like a poem (c.f. Sapho)]
13] You may be able to "individuate" some of these into Things, but in many
cases you cannot.
People want to talk about "approx number of injured/dead" even before they
find all the bodies and write off the unfound as "Missing persons". [They
are still things even if people don't want to talk about them! Missing
dialogue does not change the semantic nature of something]
14] I think there are also a lot of examples from Physics and Chemistry that
need to measure Events, not the (often unknown or uncountable) things the
event operates on.
E.g. intensity of chemical reaction, acceleration (rate of change of the
speed of a movement), rate of Absorbed Dose of radiation, etc. [These are
typically measuring the number of events in a period of time or the
behaviour of something over a period of time ie the event lasts a second and
the object does something in that event. They are not measurements of the
15] Look at http://qudt.org/ in section "The SI System". Search for "per
second". I think these units measure Events, not Things. [See 14]
16] > In general temporal entities can only be measured in time and all the
properties for locating and measuring them in time are already in the CRM.
Do you mean only Duration and dates (inner and outer bounds)? [Plus relative
time: The Allen operators]
17] How do you prove the statement "can only"? [We define them as such so I
do not have to prove it: It is their ontological nature as derived from our
analysis of our domain]
18] And finally, how do you explain this: "P39 measured" points to E1, "P43
has dimension" is a shortcut thereof, but P43 points lower than E1.
(http://personal.sirma.bg/vladimir/crm-graphical/#measurement) [ P43
represents the common shortcut observed in existing documentation systems
that measure particular Things]
Hope this helps

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075 
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail steads at paveprime.com
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads 

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