[Crm-sig] ISSUE: P109 subp of P49

Stephen Stead steads at paveprime.org
Wed Aug 24 13:16:51 EEST 2011


In the case of archaeological sites the idea that curation implies custody is not true. Which is why I do not agree with this issue. It may be true in many instances in which case invoke multiple properties but it is not true in all instances which is what the sub-property relationship says.
Rgds
SdS

Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075 
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail steads at paveprime.com
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads


-----Original Message-----
From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Christian-Emil Ore
Sent: 24 August 2011 10:32
To: crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P109 subp of P49

There may be language and juridical variations as well.
To confuse: Traditionally the term in Norwegian for a curator was konservator, now the term is gradually replaced by kurator as a loan word from English

Oxford English Dictionary gives the following definition with citations:

5. The officer in charge of a museum, gallery of art, library, or the like; a keeper, custodian. In many cases the official title of the chief keeper.

1667    Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 2 486   The Curator of the Royal 
Society.

a1684    J. Evelyn Diary anno 1661 (1955) III. 292   Our Diving bell?in 
which our Curator contin<ue>d halfe an houre under water.

1767    Hunter Diary LVIII. 42   The Curators of the British Musum.

1837    J. G. Lockhart Mem. Life Scott vii,   In June 1795 he was 
appointed one of the Curators of the Advocate's library.

1889    Whitaker's Almanack 160   Museum of Practical Geology?Curator, 
Registrar and Librarian.

So I think we can be quite sure that curation of an object implies having the object in custody. The oposite need not to be true.

C-E


On 24.08.2011 08:17, Vladimir Ivanov wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm not a museum expert, but (imho) the intended meaning of both 
> concepts (custody and curation) may vary from one museum to another.
> Moreover, this meaning is matter of a museum bylaws (or 
> specialization), and is not a "rigid".
>
> So, any restriction (including subrpoperty) may potentially cause a 
> misunderstanding.
>
> Still awaiting for any feedback from museum experts...
>
> --
> Best,
> Vladimir
>
> 2011/8/23 martin <martin at ics.forth.gr <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr>>
>
>     Dear Steve,
>
>     Well, we have said that "custody" may be physical or legal. May be
>     we need a clearer
>     concept of what "curation" means, in particular the relatively
>     exotic concept of
>     landscapes. I would feel better if curation would imply a form of
>     custody... caring
>     that things are there where they are supposed to be...
>
>     On the other hand, "custody" explicitly refers to Physical Things,
>     hence including
>     landscapes. How do we define "custody" for such things? can we
>     differentiate that
>     from "curation" ? If not, we better bring the concepts closer
>     together...
>
>     May be also the concept of "custody" goes beyond "keeping". In
>     Germany, the Latin
>     term "custos" might quite well be used similar to "curator".
>
>     Do we know any experts of the concept, what do museologists say????
>
>     Best,
>
>     Martin
>
>     On 8/22/2011 2:28 AM, Stephen Stead wrote:
>      > Dear all
>      > As the P49 description says has "custody of" and E78 collection
>     talks about
>      > an E39 Actor having "assembled and maintained"  it would be
>     natural to
>      > assume that the E39 Actor would have had custody off the items
>     that made up
>      > the E78 Collection but it is possible to have curatorial
>     responsibility for
>      > a set of objects that you have never actually had in your control for
>      > instance landscapes, caves, archaeological sites or even
>     conceivably large
>      > objects.
>      > I would therefore tend to the notion that normally one would use
>     an instance
>      > of each property  (P49 and P109) to describe the relationship
>     between an
>      > instance of E78 Collection and the instance of E39 Actor that
>     curates it,
>      > rather than always assuming that curation (P109) implies custody
>     (P49).
>      > Rgds
>      > SdS
>      >
>      > Stephen Stead
>      > Tel +44 20 8668 3075
>      > Mob +44 7802 755 013
>      > E-mail steads at paveprime.com <mailto:steads at paveprime.com>
>      > LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr
>     <mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr>
>     [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr
>     <mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr>] On
>      > Behalf Of martin
>      > Sent: 12 August 2011 18:06
>      > To: crm-sig
>      > Subject: [Crm-sig] ISSUE: P109 subp of P49
>      >
>      > Dear All
>      >
>      > Should be
>      > E78 Collection.P109 has current or former curator.E39 Actor
>      >
>      > subproperty of:
>      >
>      > E18 Physical Thing.P49 has former or current keeper:E39 Actor ?
>      >
>      > What do the experts say?
>      >
>      > Best,
>      >
>      > Martin
>      >
>
>
>     --
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------------
>       Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>       Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
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>     <mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr> |
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