[Crm-sig] Fwd: Issue: questionable Sunrise

Vladimir Ivanov nomemm at gmail.com
Fri Dec 11 18:36:44 EET 2009


I agree with Christian-Emil.

2009/12/10 Christian-Emil Ore <c.e.s.ore at iln.uio.no>:
> I have another comment. Monet painting does not depict any particular
> sunrise, just the concept of the sun rising (over Le Havre). So the
> example should perhaps be replaced or changed from event to type or
> conceptual object.
>
> Chr-Emil
>
>
> On 10.12.2009 16:03, martin wrote:
>> Dear Oeyvind,
>>
>> Sure, we know what a sunrise is. I meant, what is the superclass of "sunrise" in the CRM.
>> I could regard it, as you say, as just a time-span (with time-zone). An E5 Event should bring about
>> a change of state. That it will be daylight after the sunrise could be regarded as a change of state, even
>> though the daylight line just sweeps over the earth. There is
>> however no interaction associated with it, as with any other occurrence patterns between
>> independtly moving things. There is no objective notion of "participants". There is no notion
>> of things "meeting", except may be for the photons. In this sense, driving a car from A to B could
>> be seen as consisting of thousands of events of passing stones next to the road.
>>
>> We could regard is as E4 Period, since in the scope note we say, there is no need for change of state,
>> and assign a place and time to it.
>>
>>  From a point of physics, there is no energy-mediated interaction between the participants, as with activities,
>> building crashes etc.
>>
>> Just to clarify, where the borders of an event are. Is "passing by" at a distance without interaction an event
>> in the sense we need for the CRM? Do I pass by Auckland in a sense on my way from home to my bureau in Heraklion?
>>
>> I suspect we are touching the notion of "situation" we have avoided to model so far.
>>
>> Interesting problem, isn't it?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Øyvind Eide wrote:
>>> Den 10. des.. 2009 kl. 14.38 skrev martin:
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> "“Impression Sunrise” by Monet (E84) depicts sun rising over Le Havre
>>>> (E5) mode of depiction Impressionistic (E55)" :
>>>>
>>>> One may argue, that "Sunrise over Le Havre" depicts a place and a
>>>> certain timespan, but the sunrise itself might
>>>> not be seen as a process in the sense of the CRM, since it is just a
>>>> question of a view on a constellation of deeply
>>>> independent things (rather a "situation"). May be, we should avoid the
>>>> example, until we better know what a sunrise is?
>>> Dear Martin, and all,
>>>
>>> If we do not know now what a sunrise is, will we know better in the future?
>>>
>>> I think the problem is not the word "sunrise". It is a normal word with
>>> several related meanings: e.g. " a time of day", or "any (major)
>>> awakening", as a dictionary will tell us.
>>>
>>> The problem is rather than when such a word is used in the title of a
>>> painting, the meaning is not fixed, so that it can mean the time of day,
>>> or it can mean the start of a new, totally different part of person's
>>> life, just to take two examples. In order to model such a text in a
>>> formalism such as CRM, one of the meaning must be chosen (or maybe
>>> several, but always fewer than the potential total number of possible
>>> meaning).
>>>
>>> In short, is this not a case similar to underspecification?
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Øyvind Eide
>>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London
>>> Unit for Digital Documentation, University of Oslo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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--
С уважением,
Владимир Иванов
--------------------------------------------------
младший научный сотрудник
лаборатории математической и
компьютерной лингвистики
НИИММ им. Н.Г. Чеботарева
Казанского государственного университета



-- 
С уважением,
Владимир Иванов
--------------------------------------------------
младший научный сотрудник
лаборатории математической и
компьютерной лингвистики
НИИММ им. Н.Г. Чеботарева
Казанского государственного университета



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