[Crm-sig] metonymy

Vladimir Ivanov nomemm at gmail.com
Tue Nov 25 11:54:41 EET 2008


Hi, Stephen!

My point was that relations such as metonymy
(I mean relations between types or word senses or particulars etc.,
not between instances or items of documentation)

 are either out of the CRM scope
or may lead to "dive into a non-decidable subset of 2nd order logic".

Anyway, I don't see a corresponding CRM property.
As I understand, it's still an open question.

Of course, one could introduce metonymy as new property
between certain (user-defined) subclasses of E55.Type.

Best regards
Vladimir

2008/11/25 Stephen Stead <steads at paveprime.org>:
> Vladimir
> I agree with Martin that this is pushing beyond the intend use.
> Rgds
> SdS
>
> Stephen Stead
> Tel +44 20 8668 3075
> Mob +44 7802 755 013
> E-mail steads at paveprime.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: martin [mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr]
> Sent: 20 November 2008 16:49
> To: Vladimir Ivanov
> Cc: steads at paveprime.com; crm-sig
> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] metonymy
>
> Hi Vladimir,
>
> I think this clearly goes beyond the "intended" use of P103. We had
> discussions in the past
> about a "Metacrm", i.e., a set of operators that allow to derive from CRM
> properties,
> which are designed to hold for particulars, "usual" properties holding
> between
> all instances of some categories (E55). The discussion more or less stuck
> with
> Guenther Goerz' proposal to use default logic, which seems to be promising
> but
> was not further developed into a demonstrator.
>
> I think the topic is still "hot", and still maintain
> that it can be described by a suitable metaschema generated from the CRM.
> The question, if we would necessarily dive into a non-decidable subset of
> 2nd order logic
> is also in the air, even though I do not believe it until I see a real
> example of
> such an undecidable question.
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
> Vladimir Ivanov wrote:
>> Thanks a lot, Stephen,
>>
>> In my case, I would like to link two instances of E55 Type:
>> engraving (technique type) [E55] and engraving (object type) [E55]
>> to describe "intensional" knowledge like in the phrase
>> "engraving techniques usually produce engravings".
>>
>> The E55 is also a sub-class of E71.
>> If I understand you correctly, I can write:
>> engraving (technique type) [E55] -> P103 was intended for (was
>> intention of) -> engraving (object type) [E55].
>>
>> Vladimir
>>
>> 2008/11/20, Stephen Stead <steads at paveprime.org>:
>>> Vladimir
>>>  The E29 Design or Procedure is a sub-class of E71 Man-Made Thing and so
> P103
>>>  was intended for (was intention of) can be used to link to an instance
> of
>>>  E55 Type {Making of an instance of object type x}. Of course actual
>>>  instances of E12 Production can also be linked via P2 has type (is type
> of)
>>>  to the same instance of E55 Type.
>>>
>>>  The mismatch has already been corrected but well caught!
>>>  P68 usually employs (is usually employed by): E57 Material
>>>  P68 usually employs (is usually employed by)
>>>
>>>  Stephen Stead
>>>  Tel +44 20 8668 3075
>>>  Mob +44 7802 755 013
>>>  E-mail steads at paveprime.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr [mailto:crm-sig-bounces at ics.forth.gr]
> On
>>>  Behalf Of Vladimir Ivanov
>>>  Sent: 20 November 2008 10:04
>>>  To: crm-sig
>>>  Subject: [Crm-sig] metonymy
>>>
>>>  Dear All,
>>>
>>>  there is a P103 in the CRM which models
>>>  "methods and techniques of use" intended for "specific man-made things"
> .
>>>
>>>  How could one model that a method  or a technique is usually
>>>  used to produce (or intended to produce) particular type of  "man-made
>>>  things"?
>>>
>>>  Such a property could be out of the CRM's scope,
>>>  but it provide quite common knowledge.
>>>
>>>  The CRM already defines "P68 foresees use of "
>>>  which links techniques  and materials in a similar manner.
>>>  (remark: there is a mismatch of "P68" name netween E29 definition and
>>>  Property definition in v.4.3)
>>>
>>>  Best,
>>>  Vladimir Ivanov.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>  Crm-sig mailing list
>>>  Crm-sig at ics.forth.gr
>>>  http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
>
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