[Crm-sig] P107.1 and P144.1, a negative vote

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Fri Nov 21 11:20:13 EET 2008


Dear Christian-Emil,

Yes, this is the solution. Of course you may argue, that it is more indirect.
P107 is both, individual member and subgroup membership. So, there is a subgroup
membership. My question, you may express the problem with "very artificial", is actually
what the ontological nature, the substance of the roles are. If they are positions,
personae, they would be not so much relations between an Individual and the Group, but a
structure of the Group, and would be better expressed by specializations of Groups and
their parts. If we regard them as relational, they are better expressed by subproperties
or 107.1 . If we keep 107.1, and regard nevertheless the model of singleton Groups as valid,
then, p107.1 would represent shortcuts over singleton Groups.

Opinions?


Martin

c.e.s.ore at edd.uio.no wrote:
> Dear all
> First of all it is difficult to comment a solution which is not presented
> but just referred to. I assume that this unknown suggested solution is as
> follows:
> 
> Assume a master and an apprentice: An actor can be the only member of a
> singleton group. The relationship master.-apprentice can be expressed as a
> group having the master-singleton and the apprentice-singleton as members.
> The type of the singleton-group can express the relation the members have
> in the master-apprentice group. If this is the solution it is of course 
> possible but very artificial like epicycle models of  the planet orbits.
> 
> I may be blind, but I dont find any sub group property in the model.
> 
> Regards,
> Christian-Emil
> 
> 
> 
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I just received a contribution voting against P107.1 and P144.1,
>>
>> with the argument that following our definition of Group, it can be also
>> an office or
>> position. So, we could model master and apprentice as subgroups - no need
>> for any extension.
>> Also, this could consistently describe changing positions.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>   Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>                                 |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>>                                                               |
>>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>                                                               |
>>   Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>>                                                               |
>>           Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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> 
> 
> 


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
  Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
                                                              |
          Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
--------------------------------------------------------------



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