RE [crm-sig] Have endurance!

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Thu Mar 31 19:05:28 EEST 2005


Hi Nick,

This reminds me of papers by Nicola Guarino,
that make the notion of persistent identity relative to identity
criteria that may change depending on purpose. Typical example
Tut Ankh Amun as person, mummy and person-mummy continuum.
I have not seen so far any theory relating these different
views to the obviously shared substance of them.

Anyhow it seems, that practitioners do not have any problem
with the perdurant-endurant distinction, independent of how it puzzles
logic-driven thought. To which degree should an ontology be
non-logic?

Another idea could be, that nature gave us an intuitive understanding of
the difference, but not the means to describe it...

Cheers

Martin

Nicholas.Crofts at mah.ville-ge.ch wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> Great paper this, but it seems to be based on a distinction that is not the
> same as the one used in the CRM between perdurant and endurant entities.
> The two positions being described - the endurance theory and the perdurance
> theory, are seen as being in conflict. Both are attempts to describe the
> nature of persistence. Briefly put, endurance is the "common-sense" view
> that the identity of an object remains fundamentally unchanged over time,
> whereas the perdurance view is that persistant identity is an illusion
> created by summing together a succession of temporal instants - existance
> is like a series of frames from a moving film. (I suppose that one could
> trace this debate back to Herclates originally.)
> 
> Incidentally, the text of the ISO version of the CRM deliberately
> plays-down the perdurant /endurant terminology in a blatant attempt to
> side-step the issue ;-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
>                                                                            
>              martin                                                        
>              <martin at ics.forth                                             
>              .gr>                                                        A 
>              Envoyé par :              crm-sig at ics.forth.gr                
>              owner-crm-sig at ics                                          cc 
>              .forth.gr                                                     
>                                                                      Objet 
>                                        [crm-sig] Have endurance!           
>              31.03.2005 15:37                                              
>                                                                            
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> 
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> My colleague Athina Kritsotakh has gathered the following references to
> endurants and perdurants.
> Enjoy. If you have more, please send me.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Martin
> 
> Endurants and perdurants
> 
> Love, Shanon. 2001. The Ontology of Persistence: (a master thesis )
> 
> Abstract
> In 1986, David Lewis offered what he thought would be the decisive
> objection against endurantism, showing it to be an implausible theory.
> The problem of temporary intrinsics stated that an object cannot have two
> complementary intrinsic properties while maintaining identity, as
> endurantists claim. Perdurantism, then, must be the more plausible theory,
> according to Lewis. The endurantists responded to this objection
> by formulating different versions of endurantism designed to avoid the
> problem. Subsequently, the endurantist tried to undermine the
> perdurantist position by arguing that a perduring object cannot undergo
> what is considered to be genuine change. As a result, endurantism is
> the more plausible theory. However, the perdurantist can show that
> endurantism seems to fail to provide an account of change as well. In
> what follows, I argue that the implicit ontological commitments of the
> endurantists and perdurantists have prevented the problem of
> temporary intrinsics and change from resolving the endurantist/perdurantist
> debate. I offer examples of plausible ontologies for the
> endurantist and perdurantist in order to emphasize this problem. I will
> argue that, in order to resolve the debate, one must ultimately
> examine the ontological accounts of each theory.
> 
> Teller P.  2002. The rotating disk argument and Humean supervenience:
> cutting the Gordian knot. Analysis July 2002, vol. 62, no. 275,  pp.
> 205-210(6)
> http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/1467-8284.00357/pdf
> 
> 
> McKinnon N. 2002. The Endurance/Perdurance Distinction.  Australasian
> Journal of Philosophy, September 01, 2002, vol. 80, no. 3, pp. 288-306(19)
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/trolleylauncher/Distinction.html
> 
> 
> --
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>   Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                 |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>                                                               |
>                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                               |
>   Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>                                                               |
>           Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
  Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
                                                              |
          Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
--------------------------------------------------------------






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