[crm-sig] [Fwd: comments]

martin martin at ics.forth.gr
Tue Mar 15 11:20:24 EET 2005



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: comments
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:36:06 -0000
From: "Iorizzo, Dolores E" <d.iorizzo at imperial.ac.uk>
To: "martin" <martin at ics.forth.gr>



Dear Martin,

Here are my comments on your text.

1) Your first point that the CRM offers a 'step towards the
vision of a global knowledge infrastructure' is a good
one, but it might be thought that the WWW does that
already to some extent, so you might amend it to a
  '...semantically integrated global knowledge infrastucture',
(or using a more non-technical term for 'semantic').

It might be worth pointing out the obvious by saying that the
WWW and popular search engines (Google, Yahoo...)
offer the illusion of connecting us to a vast range of
resources and knowledge, but in fact.....without the CRM
one is severely limited in ways that are unknown to the
user.

2) To a large extent one cannot ask the question 'why is the
ISO status for the CRM news worthy, without addressing the
much larger problem of what it ultimately hopes to achieve -
why onologies, and why THIS one?  If there is a shorthand
way of answering, or nodding to, this question in a press release
then we should do so.  If we are putting in for the Descartes
Prize then we need to come up with a sophisticated way of
addressing this issue which puts it in the forefront.  For instance,
when reflecting what sort of metaphor or simile would capture
the importance of the CRM for a 'global knowledge infrastructure',
images from biology, medicine and chemistry come to mind.

The CRM does not impose a structure, but tries to reveal the
natural structure of a thing and its relation to other things, so
you might say that getting this right is equivalent to getting
right the conceptual stucture of an atom, or a cell or the
structure of DNA - and these are things that can appeal both
to scientists and to the popular imagination. A good question
to ask to get the image right would be:   If the WWW
was an organism ( or a collection of electronic resources
was such), then what would the CRM be ? the neural networks
that connect them?  the atomic stucture?.... this is a useful
exercise, and I would be grateful for your answer, because
turning an idea into an image is a useful way to clarify the idea.
(The WWW might just be an 'heap' and not apt for the analogy
but it is a still a useful starting point.)

2) 'Agreement on wide international level on a basic, complex
intellectual structure... where subtle distinctions are vital to
scholarly research.' Yes, this needs to be emphasized since
it speaks to the issue of how technology of this sort changes
the nature of scholarly research - the question everyone is
asking.

3) Good to emphasize how the CRM gives shape to state
of the art knowledge *extraction* as well as 'knowledge representation',
showing that the CRM offers an epistemologically aware as well
as an ontologically articulate conceptual framework.

4) The point about interdisciplinary collaboration is vital, since the CRM
introduces the possibility of cross-domain and cross-boundary research
in the arts, humanities and sciences.

5)  The point about 'non-funded international collaboration' should not
be buried; it is a significant point on its own, since it represents a
form of philanthropy and intellectual commitment by a dedicated
core group of interdisciplinary researchers -a rare thing in this world.

Writing these comments have created more questions for me than
answers, but these I must address in a separate message.

as ever,

Dolores











































------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: martin [mailto:martin at ics.forth.gr]
Sent: Fri 11/03/2005 17:11
To: Tyler Bell
Cc: Nicholas Crofts; Iorizzo, Dolores E; Guenther Goerz; Christian-Emil Ore
Subject: Re: [crm-sig] ISO CRM press release

Hi Tyler,

On one side it is a significant step towards the vision of a global
knowledge
infrastructure, and a step to overcome the isolation of and ultimately loss
of scholarly knowledge of immense value, but also a start into
a new, more systematic understanding of the nature and complexity of
cultural-historical discourse, from which both should benefit, its effective
support by information systems, but most probably also the discourse itself.

What is outstanding for me in this attempt:

a) An agreement on such a wide international level on a basic, complex
intellectual
structure that is far more ambitious than any other current attempt towards
semantic interoperability, and this in a discipline where subtle
intellectual
distinction is vital and scholarly disagreement method.

b) The interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars, scientists and
computer
science on a conceptual model which is state-of-the-art of knowledge
representation in computer science. It can be regarded as an
extraordinary success
of know-how transfer between sciences. Particularly AI is notoriously
uncomprehensible
for outsiders. We could demonstrate that scholars and scientists of
other disciplines
are able after moderate introduction to explain the structure of their
data in
a formalism coming from AI.

c) The interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars, scientists and
computer
science on a conceptual model which represents the real consensus on basic
conceptualizations of experts ("ontological commitment") in domains so
diverse as
natural history, history of art, library science and others. This
success is related
to the fact that this collaboration is not a project, but result of an open,
long-term cooperation of people coming together to seek for the best
rather than
the first solution, a question of endurance and patience.

I write this also in the light of making arguments for the Descartes Prize.

Nick, Dolores, Christian-Emil, Guenter, I would like to hear and to give
Tyler
your understanding of the relevance of what we do with the CRM, and of
course
critique on the above.

Best,

Martin

Tyler Bell wrote:
  > Thank you Martin.
  >
  > Can I fist get a short quote from you?  I will ask Nick for one as well.
  >  Something like "This is a significant stage in the development of the
  > CRM because... "
  >
  > Will pass a draft back to you early next week.
  >
  > TB
  >
  > martin wrote:
  >
  >> Hi Tyler,
  >>
  >> Thank you very much!
  >>
  >> Yes, please go ahead, I'll participate of course in the writing.
  >>
  >> Let me know when you have a first draft at hand.
  >>
  >> Best,
  >>
  >> martin
  >>
  >> Tyler Bell wrote:
  >>
  >>> CRM Team,
  >>>
  >>> We must write a "press release" about this news.
  >>>
  >>> I suggest this because it is good to have a single reference that
  >>> highlights its significance for the CRM and (more importantly) the
  >>> cultural heritage community.
  >>>
  >>> With a press release in hand, we can contact the major information
  >>> bodies and publications with a reference to the release; it would
  >>> also be handy to have something to pass something around during the
  >>> conference season.
  >>>
  >>> In all, this is a great opportunity to raise awareness of the CRM and
  >>> prepare the world for its advent.  Assuming this is agreed, I'll
  >>> write the release and will of course welcome input.
  >>>
  >>> TB
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Nicholas.Crofts at mah.ville-ge.ch wrote:
  >>>
  >>>> Dear all,
  >>>>
  >>>> Good news... results of the ISO 21127 DSI ballot have just come in
  >>>> and I'm
  >>>> happy to say that the result was unanimous approval. Thanks to this
  >>>> we will
  >>>> be able to move directly into the publication phase without the
  >>>> need to
  >>>> pass through a FDIS (final draft) ballot.
  >>>>
  >>>> Voting results in the document below
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>  (See attached file: Vote Results.pdf)
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Looking forward to seeing you in Zagreb
  >>>>
  >>>> best wishes
  >>>>
  >>>> Nick Crofts
  >>>> Convenor ISO TC46 SC4 WG9
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
   Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                 |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                               |
                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
                  Institute of Computer Science                |
     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                               |
   Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
                                                               |
           Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
--------------------------------------------------------------



-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
  Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
                                                              |
                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
                Information Systems Laboratory                |
                 Institute of Computer Science                |
    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
                                                              |
  Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
                                                              |
          Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
--------------------------------------------------------------





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