[crm-sig] modelling discussion

Christian-Emil Ore c.e.s.ore at muspro.uio.no
Sun Feb 22 23:50:13 EET 2004


Dear all,
Martin and I have had a very short discussion about how to model 
information from old and not properly written catalogues from the 
entographical museum in Oslo:

"We are working on a database for ethnography (the museum) and have as an 
objective to make this database as CRM-compatible as possible. As usual the 
real data are XML-tagged aquisition catalogues (19). In some cases one will 
find entries simplely describing a mask very briefly and then at the bottom 
its written Borneo. According to the model thought out by the ethnographers 
this could mean: made or used (by people) or collected/bought (by 
ethnographers) on Borneo. According to the model thought out by the 
ethnographers this could mean: made or used (by people) or collected/bought 
(by ethnographers) on Borneo. [Allthough if pressed they tend to deny 
everything except that there seems to be a connection]."

Due to the really unclear connection it is tempting (at least for my 
collegues and me) to model this by introducing an empty property P0 and 
using a E13, attribute assignment to represent the fact that the connection 
is documented in a certain (identifiable) catalogue. I got the following 
answer from Martin:

"Physical Object - was present at - Event - took place at Place.
I don't think you need more. You could even classify the event with
a "MAKING USE or CoLLECT" Type. Totally precise. "

Martin is completely right that it iss totally precise. Since then we have 
discussed the problem with Stephen and have been informed that we are not 
the first to suggest a P0. A P0 will be useful from a information-logical 
point of view. However, I see the point that the introduction of such a 
thing will make it too tempting to collaps a mapping in to CRM into P0s. 
Thus Martin's solution should be selected. The use of a "MAKING USE or 
CoLLECT"-type will for many persons be a little unfamiliar. But in a proper 
thesaurus it is fine.

Praeterea censeo E3 Condition State esse delendam
Christian-Emil




>X-From_: martin at ics.forth.gr Fri Feb 06 16:39:10 2004
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>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:39:02 +0200
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>To: Christian-Emil Ore <c.e.s.ore at muspro.uio.no>
>Subject: Re: CRM cross-reference Manual
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>Dear Christian-Emil,
>
>What about this:
>
>
>Physical Object - was present at - Event - took place at Place.
>
>I don't think you need more. You could even classify the event with
>a "MAKING USE or CoLLECT" Type. Totally precise. If you like this, please
>post the question and solution to the crm-sig list. Others might be
>interested in it.
>
>BTW, do still think about a CRM meeting in the Norwegian mountains??
>
>Cheers,
>
>Martin
>
>Christian-Emil Ore wrote:
>
>>Dear Marin
>>I got the material and have started on the job.
>>By the way: We are working on a database for ethnography (the museum) and 
>>have as an objective to make this database as CRM-compatible as possible. 
>>As usual the real data are XML-tagged aquisition catalogues (19). In some 
>>cases one will find entries simplely describing a mask very briefly and 
>>then at the bottom its written Borneo. According to the model thought out 
>>by the ethnographers this could mean: made or used (by people) or 
>>collected/bought (by ethnographers) on Borneo. The three cases will 
>>clearly create different activities in a CRM-database. A simple way to 
>>model this is by using E13 Attribute assignment and P141, P140 and 
>>perhaps P70. This can be slightly unecessary or complicated. It is 
>>tempting to extend CRM with a P0 being the superproperty of all 
>>properties. This will make the model more "complete" in the sence that is 
>>possible to abstract/generalise/every property as fare the left as one 
>>may wish. Today connections between two or more objects may disappear if 
>>one abstract to much. The above Borneo-example shows (in my opinion) that 
>>one may find very underspecified relations in real data.
>>Christian-Emil
>>
>>At 14:19 29.01.2004 +0200, you wrote:
>>
>>>Please check!
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>--
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>>>  Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>>>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>>>                                                              |
>>>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>>>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>>>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>>>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>>>                                                              |
>>>  Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>>>                                                              |
>>>          Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>
>
>--
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>  Principle Researcher          |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>                                |  Email: martin at ics.forth.gr |
>                                                              |
>                Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>                Information Systems Laboratory                |
>                 Institute of Computer Science                |
>    Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>                                                              |
>  Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
>                                                              |
>          Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl               |
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>




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